Immediate thoughts on Week 7
Oct
2005
Interesting to see Lycoming finally do something. Before today, the Warriors had gone 4-12 since wide receiver Ricky Lannetti died of a staph infection the night before the 2003 national quarterfinals. Sometimes tragedies such as a death of a coach or player have lingering effects. Hopefully Lycoming can get back to respectability.
And that win came against a team I was thinking might be the best in the East region before today. The two-headed backfield monster of Alex Baez and Jamie Donovan combined for just 15 carries, with Donovan limited to one carry with injuries.
Then again, Ithaca might still be the best team in the East considering Rowan’s struggles today and the loss of Mike Orihel. If it’s temporary, that’s one thing, but long-term it’s a big blow to the Profs.
Nobody has run the table in the WIAC since UW-Stout did so in 2000, but the way this Whitewater team is rolling, it seems possible. Their schedule wraps up with what is traditionally the bottom three teams (Oshkosh, River Falls and Platteville) at home and a trip to Stout, although Oshkosh is 2-1 and has already beaten Stout, so the Titans can’t be forgotten.
Congrats to Linfield, extending its own record for consecutive winning seasons — it’s now 50. A half-century over .500 is great, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not a record that someone can easily chase, nor has Linfield been in any danger lately of failing to have a winning season. Since it’s not much of a surprise, it’s hard to get all excited over it outside of McMinnville, Ore. Sorry.
Lakeland finally got past Concordia (Wis.) for the first time in five years and has three games (one against Aurora, one game back) left to decide the IBC title. I still remember their weeping and gnashing of teeth from Lakeland’s staff (two or three coaches ago) on the Selection Sunday conference call in 1997 after they went 10-0 against weak competition and justifiably did not make the tournament. (Picture making the North Region field without an automatic bid — not likely.) They’re a few steps away from getting their first chance.
Saw Johns Hopkins on Friday night against Gettysburg. They do have a defense worthy of a couple of playoff wins, but I am not sure who is going to score for them. Gettysburg came in allowing opponents 38 points a game and Johns Hopkins managed 14 — on a blocked punt and one long pass play. That isn’t going to get it done nationally, although if the Blue Jays face another Mid-Atlantic team in the playoffs they might just win, because nobody else in the subregion is that good either.
Interested in:
The whole stretch run for the IIAC, which should be interesting again. Central travels to Wartburg in Week 10. Coe has already beaten Central and lost to Wartburg. Luther’s not out of it yet.
Benedictine quarterback Efi Eyo. Man, this guy has been everywhere, started off at I-AA Fairfield, played at McDaniel, was in camp at Catholic, finally gets a W today for Benedictine, 22-13 against Eureka. Long, strange trip … or something like that.
UW-Oshkosh. Are they for real? no. Real enough to cause trouble down the stretch in the WIAC? You betcha.
Concerned about:
Thiel. Needed double OT against Waynesburg and has four games left against teams that are all at .500 or better right now.
Union. Hail Mary to beat 2-4 F&M? And you want to be my latex salesman …
Bridgewater. That’s a lot of points given up. Surely they knew when Guilford put up 45 on Hampden-Sydney that the Quakers weren’t to be taken lightly. So Guilford scored 46 on Bridgewater.
Oh, and Ferrum and Trinity (Conn.) still have Division III football programs. Now you can’t complain that we’re not talking about you. All those Ferrum gripers out there, hey, I voted for you the last three weeks. You’re barking up the wrong tree.
October 16th, 2005 at 8:23 am
Maybe Union is the worst undefeated team in the land. They were lucky to beat Kings Point. Taking their highwire act to Lancaster, they were successful in emulating Michigan and USC! With Hobart’s trouncing of both Kings Point and F&M, the Statesmen are surely to be favored in three weeks when those two meet.
October 16th, 2005 at 8:54 am
Lyco O line revamped in win over Ithaca. Don’t be surprised to see Lyco win last four games of season. They have made the turn and will be back on course to compete for MAC Title next season.
October 16th, 2005 at 1:38 pm
Union is not the worst undefeated team in the land. That honor goes to Monmouth College Fighting Scotts. They play noone worth anything, and claim greatness. They get one or two points in the D3 football .com poll and are like 20th or something in the other! What a freaking joke. Monmouth should play in the CCIW so they know what winners really look like. (The CCIW is not the only great conference, but it is my conference).
GO AUGUSTANA!!!!!! Their only loss was the first game against Central (IA) - a loss in OT.
October 16th, 2005 at 2:42 pm
Congrats to Linfield…Indeed!
This achievment is more than a local phenom. 50 consecutive winning seasons is…” not a record that someone can easily chase.”
It is a mark that will be viewed as a stand alone achievment through all divisions of all college football for a long long time. As with many worthy goals, this goes beyond the players, coaches and fans…it is the mark of an extraordinary program, school and community.
It will be a trivia question that will be missed by lots of gridiron experts.
Go Cats!
October 16th, 2005 at 3:16 pm
Why isn’t anyone talking about St Olaf?! 6 and 0 and near the top in points scored per game. Considering that the MIAC is one of the top conferences in the nation in winning percentage, I think people need to watch out for the Oles! Um Ya Ya!
October 16th, 2005 at 3:17 pm
Yes — but the point is it’s not really any different than it was a year ago, or two years ago, or three years ago. It’s like Mount Union’s winning streaks — when they’re on them it’s not really news — it’s the status quo. What’s notable is when Mount Union loses, not when they do the same thing they do all the time.
Johnny Supes: The MIAC is squarely in the middle of winning percentage this season. See Keith McMillan’s Sept. 29 Around the Nation. That is, unless you’re trying to take credit for the MIAC’s postseason winning percentage, which is basically all St. John’s, and not at all St. Olaf.
Like I said Friday, the game against Gustavus isn’t Daily Dose-worthy.
October 16th, 2005 at 3:28 pm
Linfield’s 50th winning season is a great accomplishment and something that everyone associated with the program is VERY proud of. However, it’s not something the players on this current team dwell on. They are playing for this season’s goal and for the next game on the schedule.
As long as they keep that approach then I would expect this streak will keep on rolling along.
Congrats to all the ‘Cats who have had a part in this incredible streak.
October 16th, 2005 at 8:57 pm
Even though Ithaca was perfect until Saturday, I think because of their record everybody is over looking St. John Fisher. When they played in Ithaca, Ithaca did not so much win the game as Fisher lost it. Since the lost Fisher has become alot more stingier on the defense of side of the ball with take aways, sacks and plays resulting in loss of yards, where in that game vs. Ithaca that could be very much criticized.
When it comes down to the east, I think you are gonna be looking at both of these teams, but alot more focused Fisher team is going to be coming out on top.
October 16th, 2005 at 9:10 pm
Perhaps — that’s very possible. One thing for sure, though — it seems abundantly clear that St. John Fisher without its No. 1 running back is better than Ithaca is without its No. 1/1A running backs.
October 16th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
SeanGOP denigrates Monmouth’s schedule. At least they have beaten some teams with winning records. Union has only beaten one team with a winning record, WPI, and you should see whom they beat. When it comes to strength of schedule, Union has only two formidable opponents, Hobart and RPI.
Historians will remember Union and Augustana battling in the Stagg Bowl back in the eighties
October 16th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
Here are my two-cents (plink, plink) with the painful stuff first…
Crow de jour Tonight’s menu is crow with Iowa corn. So much for my Coe Playoff Party, which Wartburg crashed with a close win. The IIAC race will be a lot more suspenseful now as will the HCAC hunt with Defiance beating Hanover.
Three cheers If I would’ve told you during the preseason that Kenyon would contend for the NCAC title, you would’ve laughed. Then I would’ve laughed and said “yeah, good one, huh?” Well, looks like the joke may be on us. Kenyon is 3-0 in conference with four opponents left. If they get by OWU this weekend, they’ve got Earlham, Hiram and Denison left. No Wittenberg. No Wabash.
Congrats to Lycoming and those kids on a big win. Expect fruit baskets from a couple other East Region teams should they stay unbeaten and in the hunt for home playoff games.
Kudos to John Port and J.D. Ricca, two great quarterbacks. They may not see any NCAA playoff games between them but they are both tremendous players. Port’s footwork and incredible touch make him a lot of fun to watch.
Bubble trouble
Last week I postulated that two losses would put a team on the bubble for a Pool C bid. By implication I assumed teams with one loss would be okay. That’s not based on anything more than my own projections (see Coe-Wartburg item above for a full disclaimer).
Here’s a quick look at that picture leaving off teams leading conference races. I’m also leaving off the surprise contenders with big games left (Alfred, W&L, UW-Oshkosh, etc).
One loss teams: Augustana, Central, Coe, Concordia-Moorhead, DePauw, Ohio Northern, RPI, SJF, Wheaton, Widener, UMHB, UW-La Crosse
Two loss teams: Albright, Capital, Carthage, CNU, Cortland, HSC, St. Norbert, Wartburg, Wooster
Keep in mind the LL will add a team to the race since Union and Hobart are undefeated.
Teams with two losses are in trouble, at least until the one-loss list gets reduced. I think a few teams – Albright, HSC and Wooster – had their bubble burst yesterday but that’s more hunch that exact calculation.
One of Wartburg’s loses is out of region. At a glance it looks like the Knights have the AQ by winning out anyway. CNU isn’t a Pool C contender. They have to beat Ferrum for the USAC (and put them on this list) or else.
Feel free to add observations or corrections…
October 16th, 2005 at 11:03 pm
Similarly, though, you should see who Monmouth’s opponents beat to get to that above-.500 record. Nobody on that schedule can really be considered formidable (your word) either, expect St. Norbert — and that’s formidable in MWC terms, similar to Hobart and RPI in LL terms.
And to Union’s credit, it does have Springfield on the schedule, but Springfield went in the tank.
October 16th, 2005 at 11:06 pm
As much as it pains me to rag on a personal favorite, Trinity (TX) is overrated in the D3football.com poll. Aside from an 18-point winning margin against Rose Hulman, their average margin of victory is 6 points over teams with a combined record of 11-12. And none of these teams seems to be appearing on your radar screens. Someone talk to me on this.
October 16th, 2005 at 11:20 pm
Lg1970:
You may be right, but I think some voters are willing to give a traditionally strong team that’s been deep in the playoffs relatively recently the benefit of the doubt on close wins. Trinity (Tx) “feels” like a safe vote on most weeks. I know some other voters are with you, though.
October 16th, 2005 at 11:52 pm
I can’t disagree with you either, lg1970. Trinity hasn’t overwhelmed me either, especially since we don’t know whether their No. 1 quarterback is healthy.
October 16th, 2005 at 11:54 pm
Shouldn’t a “0″ loss Wabash be on your C list. Because I believe if Kenyon wins out and Wabash wins out - Kenyon would be the AQ in the NCAC. So Kenyon is ‘technically’ leading the NCAC race right now.
And about Catholic - when was the last time a team won a game and lost that many yards rushing??? That’s mind-boggling.
lg1970 - Huntingdon is a “B” contender - if someone slips and they win out, they’ll be in the “B” mix and that’ll be a good win for Trinity.
October 17th, 2005 at 12:16 am
I dunno if there are going to be enough slips in the Pool B mix for Huntingdon to get IN the mix. The QoWi for HC is going to be pretty low, they only have eight D3 games, and the only quality opponent for them is Trinity. Keep in mind that Trinity still has a leg up on DePauw for the SCAC’s AQ, so if anything Huntingdon may be the beneficiary of playing Trinity rather than the other way around.
I don’t think Trinity’s quite a top-ten team, but they are winning with ball control and a decent defense. We are so used to seeing that wide open Trinity pass attack, but they have handled all the challenges facing them. This weekend they get a 5-1 Centre team that should, repeat should, represent the last serious challenge of the regular season. After that it’s at Rhodes, at Sewanee, and home for Millsaps. Those three teams are a combined 4-13, though Rhodes has lost their five games by a total of 20 points.
October 17th, 2005 at 12:17 am
Oops, Centre is 6-1. Sorry.
October 17th, 2005 at 2:53 am
Smed:
That’s a fair point. I wasn’t prepared to call any undefeated team a Pool C contender, but Wabash has a special case if they can win out and not get the AQ.
I’m not familiar with the conference tiebreaker rules. Why would undefeated Kenyon get the bid over Wabash?
October 17th, 2005 at 8:34 am
From all that I have heard, the NCAC uses the “Rose Bowl” rule - which means Kenyon would get the bid since they’ve never been to the playoffs.
I think many of us are trying to get confirmation from the NCAC that this is the case.
October 17th, 2005 at 9:48 am
The possible outcome in the Liberty League is very intriguing, notwithstanding Union or Hobart going undefeated. Can Union’s “A” game conquer Hobart’s “A” game? We will see in three weeks. But a loss by each before season’s end throws the race into some confusion.
October 17th, 2005 at 11:43 am
HOW BOUT DEM PANTHERS!!!!…..another notch on their belt. they proved again that they can score against anyone at anytime. funny how all the people that said ferrum doesnt play anyone hasnt said a word about them beating methodist. haha
October 17th, 2005 at 11:49 am
That isn’t true, of course, but I’m glad it makes you feel better to crow about it.
http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/?p=116#comment-532
In the grand scheme of Division III, Methodist still isn’t “anyone” but on the USAC level it’s meaningful and Ferrum got some more votes for that very reason.
October 17th, 2005 at 12:03 pm
Methodist has qualified for the playoffs how many times?
Speak up, son, I can’t hear you.
October 17th, 2005 at 12:31 pm
Back to Monmouth. All one has to do to judge a teams skill (or a conference) is to look at the non-conference record. I will put up the CCIW against anyone. Look at Monmouth’s conference record for non-conference games and you see that they all stink.
October 17th, 2005 at 1:19 pm
All dat dere cheese on der head must make you one angry person. Give Monmouth credit even if you don’t feel the conference is the best around. These are small school teams competing against one another, and therefore should have similar talents. Being a stepchild to U of W must make you feel impotent.
October 17th, 2005 at 1:53 pm
To Ferrum fans - nice home win by 5 over Methodist. As someone else said, however, nice within the USAC, but not very meaningful on the national scene. I’ve seen both teams play this year and both would be quite vulnerable against truly topnotch DIII teams. Ferrum may run through the regular season unbeaten, but I see them taking an early fall in the playoffs. If I’m proven wrong later, I’ll admit it & tip my hat. Enjoy the 14 points you got this week in the poll - you are being noticed by more voters each week. PS Don’t get too excited if you beat Greensboro - I’ve seen them play also.
October 17th, 2005 at 2:39 pm
truefan,
I believe if you read all the responses on this blog entry you will find Sean is not a fan of a WIAC team.
October 17th, 2005 at 2:57 pm
Concerned about:
Thiel. Needed double OT against Waynesburg and has four games left against teams that are all at .500 or better right now.
The remaining schedule for Thiel consists of:
@ Westminster 3-3
Thomas More 4-2
Buffalo State 1-4
@ Carnegie Mellon 3-3
I believe this is a much easier finish to the season than the Waynesburg or Washington and Jefferson games that were played recently. I attended the Waynesburg football game and came away extremely impressed with Thiel. They fell down 21-0 very early, but the way the team responded was very impressive. They made plays when they had to make them to beat a very underrated Waynesburg team. I think Thiel should be able to finish strong as long as they don’t have a late season collapse like last year that prevented them from receiving playoff consideration.
October 17th, 2005 at 3:02 pm
The NCAC situation is certainly an interesting one, but that is what happens when schools do not play all other conference schools. Would it be unfair for an undefeated Wabash team NOT to win the conference if it goes undefeated? Comparisons can be misleading, but Kenyon lost to Kalamazoo by 12, and Wabash beat Kalamazoo by 40. Of course, none of this matters if Wittenberg beats Wabash next week. Then Wittenberg will be the only other conference unbeaten, along with Kenyon. These things normally work themselves out on the field.
October 17th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Thejudge -
Witt and Kenyon would have the same issues Wabash and Kenyon would. They do not play each other, either.
October 17th, 2005 at 3:24 pm
With that schedule, this is definitely Kenyon’s chance to slip in there for a conference title. I believe they have won their 3 conference games by a total of about 12 points. Hey, you have to win the close ones, and they are doing just that.
October 17th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
When you see the likes of Kenyon, Union, and Trinity (Ct.) fielding these impressive teams, all three of which are considered academically elite schools, one begins to realize that the hackneyed term “scholar athlete” is not always an oxymoron.
October 17th, 2005 at 6:17 pm
I am new to this blog, but I will say what johnnysuperman wrote about St. Olaf getting no love is nuts. They still have not played either Concordia OR St. John’s yet this year…so those will be 2 automatic losses for the Ole’s. I guess I am a little biased, but until St. Olaf beats a legitimate MIAC contender they should not even get a sniff at the Top 25. One last thing, nice win by the Johnnies this past weekend…looks like another MIAC title for St. John’s, very NICE!
October 17th, 2005 at 6:24 pm
All this Rose Bowl Kenyon junk is VERY premature. Hiram and Oberlin don’t scare anybody, but KC has to beat a pretty good Wesleyan team this week before we all clog the NCAC voice mail with questions about tiebreakers.
Lots of academically elite (or at least moderately elite) schools have success in D-III. that’s why it’s D-III. Plus, somebody has to be the cream of the NESCAC, and they’re all elite. Trinity’s streak proves nothing about elite colleges. Have a NESCAC school get 11 wins with a regional schedule and playoff games and then we’ll see how impressive they are.
don’t mean to pick on theduke, but I don’t have to scroll to see the last couple posts and it makes it easier.
October 17th, 2005 at 8:01 pm
OK lets look at Ferrum. Preseason national rank, over 100, conference rank, 5th. Lets look at the season, 7-0. Ferrum has went far and beyond expectations, or did voters in conference and national, not know how to vote. Maybe they will get into the playoffs this year, hopefully they will win a game or two in the playoffs, but Ferrum at least will have respect after this year, with majority of the team returning, including Junior QB Jermaine Pitts, which has been simply amazing. No matter what your take on Ferrum, they have surpassed expectations, I think only a hand full of us actaully saw how good Ferrum actually was and how average other teams like HSC really are. As I predicted in over the summer, Ferrum will be playing CNU Nov. 10th for the Conference title. My prediction, Ferrum 42, CNU 35. I do appreciate the added votes, as I believe if you win, you should recieve votes.
October 17th, 2005 at 8:51 pm
Packwlu - We all thought the Kenyon ride would win against ‘Gheny. They play OWU at home, and I would hate to underestimate the Lords. And I can’t believe I just typed that…
October 17th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
rbrockwell
Let’s try this…no disrespect to Ferum as I see they won again and moved up in the points.
Record of opponents played YTD 12-32
Record of future opponents YTD 7-11
Teams with winning records 2
Try this on for size
2004
Record of opponents played 81-59
Teams with winning records 9 of 13
Teams record 13-1
Earned respect
Hope to see you in Dec.
You might want to check the D3 rankings a little closer and see how many teams won last week and dropped in standings. No guarantees with a win.
October 18th, 2005 at 1:12 am
No quarrel with with pacwlu over Trinity’s prospects on the national stage. I don’t recall one of the so called elite schools (or almost elite)making it much further in recent years than the early rounds of the tournament. Maybe you have to go all the way back to the eighties when Union reached the Stagg Bowl twice.
In any event, whether it is Kenyon, Trinity, Union, or whoever, (I did say the likes of)their records are impressive within the context of their respective leagues. These schools will unlikely ever successfully contend with the upper echelon of DIII.
October 18th, 2005 at 10:43 am
Raiderguy - You made some excellent points on quality of wins and toughness of competition. I’ve traveled the USA extensively in my life and I’ve seen DIII games all over the country. As an alumnus of an ODAC college, I have, consequently, seen many games versus ODAC, USAC, ACFC, PAC and Centennial Conference opponents over the past 35 years. When I couple this with seeing games in the Northeast, South, West & Midwest, it leads me to say that thinking you’re good on the national arena and actually being good on the national arena are two very different things. The distinction can only be made in the regular season with experienced observers (voters) plus strength of schedule, quality of win and common opponent indices. In the postseason, it’s more easily ascertained with a documented history of head-to-head matchups and playoff success(es). If a school is an overachiever for the regular season, kudos for that. Time will tell, however, if the mid-season euphoria is still justified in December.
PS Thank you so much for writing an email that looks as though it was composed by a writer with college academic accomplishments as well as athletic spectator experience.
October 18th, 2005 at 4:51 pm
SeanGOP,
Generally you need to have some type of validity to make an argumentative statement. The top four teams in the MWC have done ok in their non-conference games. MC 1-0 destroyed Concordia(WI), St. Norbert 0-1 got blown out by Whitewater (who coincidentaly has blown out everyone on their schedule) Carrol 0-1 lost to Carthage by 4 at Carthage in the first game of the year, and both Ripon and Lake Forest have Macalester on the schedule.
Now the records or opponents are not stellar, but for you to claim the non-conference records of the teams in the MWC is just a ludicrous statement.
I would take MC up against any CCIW team and if MC gets paired with one of those chumps i will fly out from Cali just to see the beatdown!!
October 18th, 2005 at 5:05 pm
“Now the records or opponents are not stellar, but for you to claim the non-conference records of the teams in the MWC is just a ludicrous statement.”
To claim them as what, exactly?
Congrats on getting Carthage in the first game of the year, as you so handily point out. Did you mention the young wide receivers dropped five passes in the end zone to keep that game close? I am sure that is a 35-7 game if played now.
“if MC gets paired with one of those chumps i will fly out from Cali just to see the beatdown!!”
You are asking for a big-time reailty check. When has the MWC ever beaten anyone down come playoff time? But yes, destroying CUW is huge — considering they’re at best the #2 team in the second-to-worst conference in D-III. If CUW were that worth bragging about, Monmouth would have gotten in the playoffs last year at 9-1. But strength of schedule is important.
October 18th, 2005 at 6:34 pm
PCole,
“Congrats on getting Carthage in the first game of the year, as you so handily point out. Did you mention the young wide receivers dropped five passes in the end zone to keep that game close? I am sure that is a 35-7 game if played now.”
didnt see the game, dont care. I was responding to the idiotic statement made by SeanGop. Now to respond to your idiotic statement..
If MC is paired with any one else other than the team on its way to the National title game (that is normally the case for the MWC champ) I am sure they will be able to do more than just stay in the game. Once again Carroll (currently fourth in the MWC) played a tough non-conference opponent and had a chance to win. that is the point that was being argued. I am not claiming that MC is the best team in the country (not yet anyway) but we are definitely comparable to any top team in our neighbor conferences the IIAC and the CCIW.
“if MC gets paired with one of those chumps i will fly out from Cali just to see the beatdown!!”
This statement was made in response to the CCIW being put on an unreachable pedestal. You want to ask about MWC teams’ accomplishments in the playoffs.. what about the CCIW, they have won some games, ill give you that, but then they always get blown out by the team going to the title game. if they had to play that game in the first round of the playoffs i can only imagine the CCIW champs having the same fate as the MWC champs. First round or third, if you get blown out by a team playing in the title game its all the same. Maybe MC will get lucky this year and get to play some early round cupcakes like the CCIW…
“Perception” of strength of schedule seems to be more important than actual strength of schedule as far as rankings go. And right now it is perceived that the CCIW is stronger than the MWC. Fine, but if you look at who and how the playoff teams are losing, (not just at the cupcakes that the CCIW team beats in the first and/or second round) you will see a lot of similarities between the two conferences.
October 18th, 2005 at 7:05 pm
“If MC is paired with any one else other than the team on its way to the National title game (that is normally the case for the MWC champ) I am sure they will be able to do more than just stay in the game.”
I don’t want to get too embroiled in this debate, but I’m not sure what you meant by this statement. Here is who the MWC has played in the first round.
2004: St. Norbert played UW-Lax (knocked out in second round)
2003: St. Norbert played Simpson then advanced to play National title winner SJU
2002: Lake Forest played Wartburg (knocked out in second round)
2001: St. Norbert played SJU (Stagg Bowl participant)
2000: St. Norbert played Central (knocked out in regional final)
1999: St. Norbert played Augustana (knocked out in second round).
Other than 2001 and 2003, the MWC has not been paired against a Stagg Bowl participant.
October 18th, 2005 at 7:56 pm
What dont you understand, 2 out of 6 played for the title, and 1 more lost the game before the final. 50 percent of the games you so notably listed. What do you want me to say you got me? Naw, ill stick by my point. That was very good research though.
Over that same time the CCIW champ has lost to Mount Union all but once, and Mount Union reached the Stagg Bowl 3 times. So 50 percent of the teams played have been really really good. You see the comparison yet?
The point I am still debating is the perception that the MWC does not compete well in the playoffs. My statement just showed that they are playing and losing to the same caliber opponent as the representative from the “mighty” (please feel the sarcasm) CCIW. We just happen to play them in the first round rather than the third.
I can go all day fellas….
October 18th, 2005 at 8:13 pm
Mount Union, Ohio Northern and Baldwin-Wallace would be shocked to learn they are now “early round cupcakes.”
October 18th, 2005 at 9:09 pm
Old Fighting Scot:
You’re living up to your nickname, which is fine, but I wasn’t taking either side in the CCIW/MWC argument.
I was just pointing out that MWC teams are not losing to eventual champs every year as you stated — 2 of 6 doesn’t even add up to a majority of the time. I wasn’t addressing whether that’s better or worse than the CCIW teams.
October 19th, 2005 at 12:02 am
Old Fighting Scot,
MWC playoff record 1-6
CCIW playoff record 8-7
By my calculations that’s 15 games to 7 and a better than 50% record against playoff caliber teams for the CCIW. They have proven their metal in tournament play and have given plenty to MUC in those encounters in Alliance. Last year alone the Raiders faced two teams from CCIW and had great competition from both.
Hard to say much about MWC tournament prowess until you get past 50% because you will not always be facing eventual champions in the early rounds as it has been pointed out previously.
NO disrespect to Monmouth but
Current record of opponents 19-25
Future opponents record YTD 10-9
Last years opponents overall record 50-51
There just has to be something to playing quality opponents to earn the respect. I saw that you missed out of the playoffs with one loss last year and that does suck. The way the playoffs are structured this year may take care of that unfortunate situation. There is one sure way to avoid it though. Win ‘em all. “Leave no doubt” to coin a phrase made popular by my friends at Linfield.
Hope to see you in the playoffs if we make it through our conference.
“Leave no doubt”
October 19th, 2005 at 1:00 am
OK so what is wrong with this picture.
Ferum and Linfield are tied on the strength of schedule at 10.333??????
I know Linfield is looking for opponents. Lets get it on next year. It will help both schools.
Ouch…..I hate when my tongue gets stuck to my cheek.
October 19th, 2005 at 1:15 am
It’s not a strength of schedule rating. It’s not even called strength of schedule anymore.
October 19th, 2005 at 10:53 am
As I mentioned a couple of days ago, these types of issues are usually worked out on the field. There will always be fans and teams that argue that a certain squad should have gotten a bid to the exclusion of some other team. However, with the current number of teams allowed into the playoffs, no one can legitimately claim that they could have won a national title, but did not get a bid. Let’s just be thankful that the playoff system has changed over the years. I remember in ‘81 or ‘82 (I hope there are others out there who can remember back that far) when Wabash had a tight end by the name of Pete Metzelaars and was undefeated, including a win over an always-strong Dayton team. As I recall, the top 2 teams from each region made the playoffs. Two other teams from this region were ranked 1 and 3 in the country (Augustana and Baldwin-Wallace maybe?) and Wabash was ranked 5th or 6th, but stayed home. This can’t happen now. All of the deserving teams will eventually make their statements on the field, not in some poll. That is one of the things that makes D3 football so great.
October 19th, 2005 at 11:35 am
Thanks Pat for the heads up. I should have seen that from the title of the chart on the NCAA listing for Quality of Wins Index.
Is there anything at all to be taken from this chart?
Just a dumb question?
October 19th, 2005 at 12:42 pm
You can’t really use it as a measure for determining the quality of a team.
You can use it to help determine how the NCAA might select at-large teams and how it might seed teams.
October 19th, 2005 at 3:57 pm
Raider Guy,
I think Linfield was hoping the Stevens Point would be the big preseason game but it would clearly appear that the Pointers are pointing down (tough schedule and all).
Linfield has the same schedule as last season but some of the more traditional tough teams are down this season (PLU, SOU, UW-SP, etc.)
Hey, I’m pretty sure Linfield wouldn’t mind hooking up with Mount during the regular season. If they seek out Hardin Simmons for a two year deal, I would think they wouldn’t mind playing the Raiders.
October 19th, 2005 at 5:03 pm
pcole,
wondering how you can say St. Olaf doesn’t deserve to be in the top 25 when Coe was ranked as high as 15 this week. A couple reasons:
1. Coe beats Luther 14-10, St. Olaf beats Luther 34-14 AT Luther.
2. Coe beats St. Thomas 24-21 at home, St. Olaf beats St. Thomas 53-27 at home.
Johnnienation,
Will enjoy beating the Johnnies for the second year in a row, only this time at your place like back in 2001. Except, unlike you and other johnnies fans, we wont make excuses about watering the field before games no matter what the outcome.
October 19th, 2005 at 9:21 pm
I graduated from Ferrum in ‘93…..and I pride myself on being objective. That being said…unless the Panthers pickup their defense, it don’t look good! On the flip side, with Pitts, Mulford, Hamoy and Hawkins tot’n the mail…..they will score at least 24 on anybody in the land of D3. They have a couple of guys (Chris Silk), who can catch the ball and get in the end zone as well.
You may outscore them…but this ‘05 group is good for the 24.
October 19th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
old fighting scot.
Alas, I do not have the power to set up the ’showdown’, but if we could set up a CCIW-MWC day (#1 vs. #1, #2 vs. #2, etc.), I would give even money on the CCIW going 8-0, and 5 to 1 odds on the CCIW going at leat 6-2.
Win a second playoff game (ever!) before you start trash-talkin’!
And I don’t even consider the CCIW to be THAT elite in fball (at least a few notches below bball)! While you may usually have a champion who would finish in the top half of the CCIW, usually your second-place team would finish about 6th or 7th.
October 19th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
blackhatsonthehill
I think you need to be still a little more objective.
“24 on anyone in the land of D3.”
While it appears you can run the ball it only sets you up to have to pass to score. A good defense will force you into that and as the #206 of 228 teams in passing I think there will be plenty of teams that will take that challenge and win it. It all goes back to who you are getting these yards and points against. With some good fortune you will get the chance to score those 24 on some teams a little more on the ball.
I can name four teams without even blinking that would end that steak.
October 19th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Cat 11
I think it would be great too. We are having to travel great distances just to get our one non conference game a year. Next two years it is Averett in Virginia. They look like an up and coming program. The last two years has been Washington University in St Louis.
We have so many great chances for local rivalries but can’t get them to play us. Wooster was an old time conference rival and they are only 30-40 miles away. We can’t even get them to play our JV squad. Even though we have them on the schedule they come up with some reason not to play the game all the time. Did it again this year too.
I guess it is a chance in the playoffs at best for now. Good luck this week.
October 19th, 2005 at 11:47 pm
Raiderguy
I agree Ferrum is not pressing the numbers on the passing game. Yet to say that running the ball “only sets you up to have to pass to score” is somewhat puzzling. The ability to pass, opens up your run game, and while the Panthers are not a passing team at all….they can and are respected as such.
October 20th, 2005 at 10:48 am
pcole,truefan and cabonney
You all make fantastic points - you guys know reality.
I may be an anxious CCIW fan, but I still have the brains to realize that the MWC is WEAK. I really like the odds cabonney put down on the CCIW vs. MWC fantasy pairings. I would put every dollar I have on the CCIW winning at least 6 of the 8 games. Honestly, I would really consider putting all my money on the CCIW going 8-0.
Old Fighting Scott is a loyal fan of his conference - the MWC needs them. There is no way, and I mean NO WAY that his (or her to be fair - even though I think it is a guy) claim that the top MWC team could compare to the top CCIW teams! NO WAY!
The CCIW has had times of dynasty - Augie winning 4 consecutive National Championships not so long ago. The top CCIW teams (that’s TEAMS) are always some of the most competitive in the country (that’s the ENTIRE USA). The top teams in the MWC are lucky they have weak schedules, because if they played the CCIW schedule - they would be miserable.
Lets look back just a few years when glorious Monmouth didn’t win a game for two whole seasons. I loved it. I am from Monmouth, Illinois and I knew the guys on the team - they acted as if they were Mount Union, or Linfield despite the record they posted. They actually scrimmaged Augustana and were partying the night prior saying, “We are gonna do alright”. I still remember that. Augie killed them. Had a score been kept Augie would have won 91-0, and that is no lie!! It would have been even worse had they not whistled plays dead when the Monmouth QB was running for his life in the wrong direction.
Monmouth is the best team in the MWC right now, but that really does not get much respect knowing that they have a weak schedule. They could go undefeated in the regular season, but they are going to get killed in the playoffs - I hope they play a CCIW team so Ye Olde Fighting Scott can realize what we are all talking about.
The CCIW has 3 teams in the d3football.com poll top 26. Monmouth is 36th or something.
GO AGUSTANA, AND GO CCIW!!
October 20th, 2005 at 1:51 pm
According to Massey, Monmouth’s SOS is 109th best right now. That’s in the upper half, though below the normal SOS for the CCIW.
October 20th, 2005 at 3:13 pm
Hey Raiderguy -
Averett (USAC) does seem to be an up & coming program. They’ve only had football about 5 years and may only be 20 years removed from being an all girls school (starting a football team was one strategy to attract more male applicants).
One other intriquing possibility for a home & home series with Mt. Union is ODAC power (at least since 2000 or so) Bridgewater. They had two possible opponents back out on them this year (Thomas More was one, not sure about the other) and had to fill out their schedule with a 45-0 whitewash of Geo. Mason U.’s club team. BC has been arguing with the NCAA & the ODAC about counting the win & inidvidual stats (they won’t be allowed to do so), but BC says they’re going to count them in their school records. lol
Maybe the BC Eagles have some future open dates? I bet they’d love to play Mt. Union.
Signed, a Guilford Quaker in NC
October 20th, 2005 at 6:21 pm
blackhatsonthehill
What was so puzzling about my comment. A good defense is going to put 8 in the box as the saying goes and shut down your run game. Dare you to beat them in the air and there is nothing that indicates the #206 passing attack in the country is suddenly going to morph into the Indianapolis Colts with Peyton Manning.
I was more puzzled by the fact that “the Panthers are not a passing team at all…they can and are repected as such.” Refer above #206?
October 20th, 2005 at 6:26 pm
hasanova,
Our only problem is we are set for 9 conference games every year so there is only one opportunity for non conference match ups.
We are set as I understand for the next two years with Averett.
It would have to be the first game of the season for anything to happen.
2008 & 2009? There is plenty of time to work out the details anyway.
October 20th, 2005 at 7:01 pm
Raiderguy,
You are correct about teams putting 8 in the box, but if you look at the USAC stats, Ferrum is first in passing touchdowns. I wish the team was more balanced, but until someone seriously can stop the rushing game, the passing game will be only when needed. Yes Ferrum College only throws for 106.9 a game, but when they do throw the ball they connect, usually on big plays. QB Jermaine Pitts has an Efficiency Rating of 177, which leads all USAC QB’s. I really believe (since the end of last year) that Ferrum will be a 10-0 team after the regular season. On the other side of the ball, the Ferrum defense seems to step up when the team needs it to.
October 20th, 2005 at 7:21 pm
raiderguy
No doubt, 8 in the box will definitely stop Ferrum’s run game. The problem is…..your endzone is not a good place to finely do it. Look at the scores, their defense allows schools who are not elite D3 programs to rack up points, and the offense replys by continually ending drives with a visit from the extra point kicker.
And 8 in the box is not a good defense for an option offense. An option “O” is defeated with a steady diet of corner blitz’s, a four man front and a decent rover or 2.
But all and all….Ferrum needs to get into the playoffs. 7-0 is a great start, but winning out and reaching the post season is the meat and potatoes.
October 20th, 2005 at 10:47 pm
My final point on this still comes back to who are you putting these numbers up against? I know you have a conference schedule to play and that is a given. There is only one team in the conference who ranks above 115th out of 228 in the country in defense and you haven’t played them yet.(CN is 87th)
Everyone else is in the lower 50% and five are in the bottom 25% nationwide. (190,204,207,211,214) out of 228.
Win out and we will see you run through the playoffs.
October 21st, 2005 at 1:44 am
Everyone knows that CNU and Ferrum will be the game of the USAC, no matter what the outcome; Ferrum has had a great season. The playoffs this year is just icing on the cake. Next year should be sweet. Though win or lose, Ferrum should be in the Playoffs. I think what Ferrum has done this year is special and many fans think the same.
October 21st, 2005 at 10:29 am
CNU still has Methodist away, NC Wesleyan at home, & Averett away before the Nov. 12 game at Ferrum. They may win all 3, but I wouldn’t look past these opponents, especially Methodist. Ferrum still has Greensboro at home & NC Wesleyan away before the season-ending CNU game. IF everyone wins out, it will be a bigger game & some of the lustre will be gone if either team drops a game. If Ferrum is 9-0 going into the CNU game, I’m sure they’ll have a HUGE crowd anyway. Most teams don’t get the opportunity to go undefeated very often & some never do. (For example, I know Guilford has been playing football since 1893 or so & they’ve never done better than several 8-2 seasons & a 7-1-1 campaign.) I’m sure a lot of Ferrum alumni & fans will come for this reason in addition to the students, families for Senior day & CNU fans. Does Ferrum have any plans to move this game to a bigger venue if all this falls into place?
October 21st, 2005 at 10:49 am
This email will hopefully put to rest those who claim that Monmouth College and the MWC conference can hang with the CCIW and the WIAC.
Go to this link (Massey Ratings): http://www.masseyratings.com and you will find ratings for all D3 teams and confernces.
This is what I learned about the CCIW, WIAC and the MWC - enjoy.
I will go in order in the order of CCIW, WIAC and the MWC. Remember there are only 219 teams total.
RANK TEAM SCHEDULE RANK
5 North Central 37
13 Wheaton 24
17 Augustana 32
21 Carthage 13
31 Millikin 22
38 Elmhurst 102
75 North Park 58
98 Illinois Wesleyan 10
1 W-Whitewater 4
9 W-LaCrosse 2
16 W- Eau Claire 1
25 W-Oshkosh 47
34 W-Stevens Point 3
47 W-Stout 45
54 W-River Falls 8
105 W-Platteville 12
18 Monmouth 109
37 St. Norbert 39
69 Ripon 100
74 Carroll WI 72
112 Lake Forest 150
116 IL College 142
136 Knox 163
148 Beloit 38
151 Lawrence 49
181 Grinnell 119
Massey Ratings has WIAC as the number 1 conference in the Country and the CCIW as the #2 conference in the country. The CCIW had the best non-conference record in the Country (21-3). The Schedule strength number with Massey only reflects games played so far. So, the CCIW and the WIAC teams strength of schedule will only become more impressive and the MWC teams will get worse.
Oh, also, every team in the CCIW (with the exception of Illinois Wesleyan) has earned votes in D3 Football.com polls this season. That may also be true with the WIAC (all teams in conference).
Check out Massey Ratings.
GO AUGUSTANA.
I have no idea how someone could actually say that Monmouth could hang in the CCIW or the WIAC. Lets put that thought to rest.
October 21st, 2005 at 11:01 am
Actually, North Park hasn’t gotten any Top 25 votes either.
Good discussion this week. We’ll table it and come back after week 8, I suppose.