Immediate thoughts on the semis
Dec
2005
It’s hard to keep from pondering that if the NCAA had put UW-Whitewater in the North and Lakeland in the West (remember, Whitewater is closer geographically to the rest of the North bracket than Lakeland is!) then we could have seen UW-Whitewater/Mount Union today and UW-Whitewater/Linfield next week.
Thank goodness there was a competitive game today. Rowan did alright by the East in this one. Should be a good crowd in Salem. Looking forward to that one.
Congrats to Mount Union and UW-Whitewater. Fans, you should know that the Stagg Bowl organizing committee is sponsoring giveaway of a free hotel night and admission to the game. On Friday there’s a luncheon for the teams at the Salem Civic Center that you can purchase tickets to. You should find out which team is in which hotel if you are traveling so you can figure out whether you want to stay in the Clarion or the Wyndham (one team will stay in each, though there are many other hotels to choose from as well, check the Stagg Bowl Web site).
Pat Cummings, Keith McMillan and I will have a live audio broadcast of the game, with Gordon Mann and I handling pregame, halftime and postgame festivities. We start two hours before the game kicks off, and our pregame show will include the first announcement of the D3football.com All-America team. We’ll also carry it through the postgame news conferences and give you our final thoughts on the 2005 season, probably running at least an hour after the games end. So if you want to hear what your team and coaches have to say, tune to us.
We’ll also do photo galleries from the week, including the luncheon and team activities, as well as the game.
Enjoy the week. Post responsibly.
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December 10th, 2005 at 7:43 pm
Good query re putting the Warhawks in the North . . . I just have to wonder how many of the west “also rans” could have won the East division. I think Linfield goes w/o saying . . . but it seems to me that St. Johns, Concordia and even Oxy may have had a shot as well. Thoughts?
December 10th, 2005 at 7:53 pm
Well, I try not to spend too much time pondering that, since it would never happen. The nature of Division III comes from the overall Division III philosophy emphasizing regional play. But swapping Whitewater into the North was feasible and consistent with the NCAA’s stated guidelines in the championships handbook. That’s why that one still bothers me.
December 10th, 2005 at 8:00 pm
I think you mean the South, where Wesley came from … Rowan represented the East well.
I had an inkling Whitewater was very good when I last saw them in about Week 5 … it wasn’t even their best game (two turnovers inside the 5) and they still looked really impressive. I would bet that Whitewater isn’t 52 points better than Wesley 9 times out of 10 … you know how games can get away from teams with turnovers … but it was definitely a ‘no doubts about it’ win.
Linfield should get strong consideration for No. 2 if UWW wins the Stagg Bowl, but I think MUC is no lower than 3 … and after that, there are probably various defensible top 10 configurations.
Mount Union coming into Salem as the underdog … probably so, but this is a very mysterious, if you will, Mount Union team. Are they getting better every week, or just a defensive juggernaut? Or both? Do we think the recent UWW-MUC games matter (they opened up with each other in, what, 02 and 03?)
And as a quick aside, anyone see the Division II championship?
I turned it on with :25 seconds left, NW Missouri St. down 21-17 to Grand Valley State, 2nd down from about the 25 … they take a shot into the back of the end zone, the guy gets his feet down but bobbles it as he catches it … third down is a throwaway, then on fourth, they complete a pass just short of the goal line, and GVSt. makes the tackle to hold on and win it … I did it perfectly, caught the only 25 seconds that mattered.
Headline on ESPN/AP right now, courtesy Pat:
“Kmic carries Rowan into D-III championship game
Associated Press
ALLIANCE, Ohio — Nate Kmic had 48 carries for 160 yards and Mount Union advanced to the NCAA Division III national championship game with a 19-7 win over Rowan on Saturday.”
Dare I say never send The Worldwide Leader to do The Best Source’s job?
December 10th, 2005 at 8:36 pm
Keith,
The world wide leader was all over the board today. They ran the MUC/Rowan ticker for a good part of the day as Mount Union-45 Rowan-7 and I think they had another off score with UWW vs. Wesley.
Pat did you piss someone off there during the playoff show?
I don’t want to diss Mount because they are the standard in DIII on a historical standard but it is a shame that the best two teams in this playoff field played in the West Region Finals when there was a chance to seperate them in two regions. I wish that everyone in DIII could have seen one of the all time great DIII games every played but that’s just not the case.
December 10th, 2005 at 8:52 pm
Boy, I like how everyone is already writting off Mount Union…… One underdog statement and forget about it….
Plus, haven’t you people complained about the Brackets enough… Come on people, we now at the Stagg Bowl… I read about it for weeks now.. New Conversation Anyone???
Also, I would take many bets that WW doesn’t hang 52 pts on Mount Union… or even 42 for that matter… Anyone agree??
December 10th, 2005 at 8:53 pm
Plus, the worldwide leader ran WW 81 -0 over Wesley for most of the day…
December 10th, 2005 at 9:02 pm
Well, for my part, I’m not writing off Mount Union. I’m just thinking that if UWW wins, there’s not much chance that it will be a better quality game than the Linfield game.
December 10th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
I would like to say that WW is a quality program and team. As a Linfiled alumni I have seen many teams come into Maxwell field and leave very unhappy. However, WW came and and played a great game nocking off the defending national champs. The fact is they didn’t put WW in the north and WW nocked off Linfield. Think of this. If WW wins next Saturday they will have beaten the last three national champs in this years playoffs. That is very impressive. Anyway, I think Linfield will have to rebuild a little next year but I still expect them to make the West regional final as they have for the last four consecutive years. Good luck to both WW and Mt. Union. You both have had great seasons and it is a shame that on of you will end the year with a loss.
December 10th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
Mike B,
I think that’s the point. Mount Union is probably better on defense than they are on offense this year, or at least not as talented on offense as the Borchart, Smeck, Adamson, etc. teams … being great on defense is generally the quickest way to get overlooked, but we can all finish this cliche:
Offense wins games …
December 10th, 2005 at 10:29 pm
I agree that Offense wins games… but I think it would there is always a better chance of winning if the opponent scores less than 3 times.. Without an offense to score… no wins…
Mt. Union’s defense is dominating though… the backs are questionable at times, however the front four are something special… I believe their stats overall this year rank right up there with the best in school history…
It known that a great defense can ease the pressure for the Offense…
I will be a very exciting game… GO RAIDERS!!!
BTW… Anyone know what time the tailgating is permitted… 2 hours before, 3 hours before…??? Thanks if anyone can help. Haven’t been there since the “L” to a great St. John’s team.
December 10th, 2005 at 10:36 pm
fb fan… I agree with everything you said 100%.
December 10th, 2005 at 10:39 pm
Hey Fellas,
Never posted before, but, have read many of the entries. And yes, there is a line of demarcation between the knowledgeable and ignorant posts…much like the bogus boundaries separating the regions. Anyhow, I’m not bitter
But, who cares really? (besides anyone who lost to UW-W in the Super Sized West Region).
Just got back to The Chi from UW-W. Everyone thinks that Wesley wore the wrong shoes for the game, but, that game was just like playing hockey on the pond with no skates…the one who wins doesn’t have an advantage just a better broom.
Hey Pat, I met your brother the photographer at the game. Really nice guy, he was totally cool to us. I’m sure it runs in the family, just like mine. I was up there with my cousins, one of which was also the MVP of his D-III football team (Nic Hildreth LFC ‘04). And while I’m at it, I want to give a super shout out to Tom Pattison and the incredible job he’s done with http://WWW.WARHAWKFOOTBALL.COM. You are seriously the man. You’ve kept all of us Warhawks in the know and I just want to say how appreciative we are.
But, to get to the heart of the matter. Warhawks, you guys are absolutely incredible. I have had a great feeling about this team since the preseason and you have never, not for a minute dissapointed us. You guys are the real deal and everybody knows it. I will be there in Salem and I look forward to meeting all of the D3Football.com guys, the family, the friends, and finally and most importantly my frickin’ guys…the Mighty Warhawks.
On the road to Victory,
Graham P. Bartholomae
1996 MVP
P.S. It’s still my favorite song.
December 10th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
Quote:
“It’s hard to keep from pondering that if the NCAA had put UW-Whitewater in the North and Lakeland in the West (remember, Whitewater is closer geographically to the rest of the North bracket than Lakeland is!) then we could have seen UW-Whitewater/Mount Union today and UW-Whitewater/Linfield next week”
Or, you could have seen UWW/MUC today and MUC/Linfield next week. I have a feeling that the Purple Raiders like coming into this weekend’s game as an underdog with nothing to lose. Kind of like the attitude back in 1993.
December 10th, 2005 at 10:58 pm
Don’t overlook Jorris, Garcon and Kmic. They may be young (I know Jorris is a JR, but he hasn’t gotten any real PT until this year) and not as well known as the Borcherts, Ballards, Bubonics, Moores, Pughs, and Marinos, but if you don’t pay attention to them, they will make you pay.
It will be interesting if Coach K allows Campbell and Candle continue with the O Play calling if the game stays tight or MUC gets behind. Should be an excellent game.
December 10th, 2005 at 11:03 pm
Everyone, know this!
Saturday is going to be fun. Will WW prove they are the sh**? Will Mt. Union do it AGAIN? I wouldn’t bet against them, to be honest.
Where is SeanGOP?
December 10th, 2005 at 11:09 pm
Its really weird to even say Mount Union is the underdog…..but I know they are. If I had to guess a line like 3-4 points. I don’t know whether they have the fire power to stay with WW offensively. I think that their DEFENSE will have to keep them in this game. Weather conditions could play a major role in this game as well. I know there are many out there who believe that the two best teams are Linfield and WW. Who knows…you may be right…..but Mount has done everything they could do to get back to the Stagg Bowl. I hope that they give them a game…..wow, the first time in how long……Mount Union and underdog used in the same sentence…..WEIRD !! Go Raiders !!!!!!!
December 10th, 2005 at 11:14 pm
Is anyone from the EAST side of Cleveland having a party/get together for the game at an establishment/bar? I think a couple of years ago they had a party at the Willoughby Brewery.
December 10th, 2005 at 11:14 pm
Any more opinions? Where is everyone?
December 10th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
Is everyone SLEEPING????
December 10th, 2005 at 11:21 pm
We haven’t heard from seanGOP cause he’s ticked off that Mount is going to the Stagg Bowl for a RECORD 9th time…..count umm Shawn, 9 times. I hope that they can bring home their 8th National Championship trophy.
GOOOOOOO RAIDERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 10th, 2005 at 11:30 pm
UWW has to be the favorite, but the one thing I keep thinking of is the advantage the MUC coaches and some of the players are going to have playing in Salem, VA again. Some of these players played or at least suited up for this game a couple of years ago and the coaches must have the travel arrangements, atmosphere preparation, media attention, etc. down to a science by now. Although there is no way to quantify how big of a deal dealing with all the hype and arrangements of the Stagg Bowl, MUC obviously has the edge in this department, as the UWW players and coaches have never experienced this. I still think UWW is the team to beat in this one, however.
December 10th, 2005 at 11:39 pm
That’s a great point D3forme…..but when you get hit the first time on the field, you forget about it being your first time. It should be a great game. If Mount can’t compete…..the bracket stuff will be brought up over and over, and over etc…..I think they will compete and it will be a close game within 7 points….you just NEVER know…..again, when was the last time Mount Union was the UNDERDOG in a game….8, 10, 12 years ago. I don’t know, you guys tell me. Go RAIDERS !!!!!
December 10th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
You are right though…..the media, preparation, travel arrangements, atmosphere…..that will no doubt be an advantage for Mount and their coaches. The question is….will it be enough of an edge….I guess that’s why we play the game….we’ll see Saturday. GO Raiders !!!!
December 10th, 2005 at 11:45 pm
Where are all of the WW fans?…..probably still partying. I don’t blame them….Whitewater has had a GREAT year…..but there’s still ONE game left.
December 11th, 2005 at 12:13 am
Kirasdad, guess you didn’t read my comment, posted an hour and a half before your response.
December 11th, 2005 at 12:40 am
Hey pcole,
Just wanted to know your thoughts on a possible playoff scenario for next season:
If UW-Whitewater wins next weekend and Whitewater, Linfield, & Mount Union all go undefeated in 2006….What are the chances they move Whitewater to the North, and Mount Union to the East next year?
This could potentially set up a Linfield vs. Mount Union semifinal to determine who gets a rematch with Whitewater in the Stagg.
Do you think the committee would be wise enough to do so? Or are we more likely to see UWW vs. Linfield regional final in Wisconsin?
December 11th, 2005 at 12:41 am
Back from the WW game and bars. Finally get to warm up a little bit. For those of you who couldnt make it out, you missed an amazing show. Swarming D forcing turnovers, and an offense unphased by weather. For those who said Wesley’s D-Line was going to test the WW O-Line, you were way off. Every play, the WW O-Line had them pushed 5-6 yards down field. Justin Jacobs (WW QB) was one of the few players who had no mud/dirt or anything for that matter on his jersey or pants. I see a lot of MUC fans are here. Good for for those guys. I do hope to see an amazing game next week. I can promise you, the WW-MUC matchups from a couple years ago mean absolutely nothing. We had no passing or defense back then. This Whitewater team is the complete package. Great D, as well as an amazing offense that is an absolute joy to watch. And just by talking with a lot of the people at the game today, we will have a strong fan base at the game next week. GO WARHAWKS!
December 11th, 2005 at 12:44 am
Bigmucfan – Yes, there will be a party (of one) watching the big game at a bar east of Cleveland. Feel free to join me at Sullivan’s, on Rt. 198, in Laurel, MD, at, say, 12:00 or so.
Drinks on me.
December 11th, 2005 at 1:18 am
50N05:
You will want to root for a blowout Stagg Bowl next weekend if you want to prevent that kind of thing from happening in the future. All I can think of at this point is that we might get some salvation if ESPN is upset by a non-competitive game.
December 11th, 2005 at 2:05 am
MU/Rowan – Defense, Defense, Defense. All the talk about the Rowan defense over the last several weeks – kind of forgot about MU’s studs. Well, Rowan held MU to 322 yds. Nice effort here, but a bit short. East has nothing to be ashamed of. Much said about MU’s KMIC, (48 carries – 160 yds – 3.3 ypc – thanks for the SamBamCunningham effort. You better get 160 with 48 touches!). Kudos to MU defense. Raiders showed they’re more “D” than “O” in this one. Nice coaching effort. Just gets it done. What a program. You guys are the bomb. Good luck next week.
Wesley – and all your fans. Trash talk all week. Real excited about your 3-game playoff run. Weary about the 47-bagel drubbing at Brockport. Wrong shoes – ok, you get one buddy pass. But 58-6? Are you kidding me? How could you wear those shoes again? Final four pasting at its worst. We’re happy to call you a “South” team after this one. Past peformance clearly not indicative of this drubbing. Please, no sissy sportsmanship commentary about the foregoing. Score speaks for itself.
UWW – good luck next week. It’ll be hard to tell the two teams apart (same colors). Look forward to a competitive game. UWW – don’t expect a similar absence from MU. Linfield all over again – with history on MU’s side. Shaping up to be one of the better Stagg Bowls in recent memory.
Again – no sissy sportsmanship replies are welcome. Bitterness from an easterner is, of course, encourged.
December 11th, 2005 at 2:18 am
Fun day in Alliance. Much better game than my last trip there when the Purple Raiders obliterated JCU in the National Semis.
Rowan did the maligned East region proud, considering they were without three key players. The Profs bring back a lot next year, including most of a stellar defensive front. Tosh and Garren are scary good.
Other random observations since a whole lot has already been said already…
Back at you: I pulled into Mount Union Stadium’s parking lot and had this brief conversation with the student handling parking.
Him: Virginia, huh? (says the license plate on the rental car).
Me: Mm (non-commital since it’s not worth explaining). I’m here with D3football.com.
Him: Again? You guys are here every week.
Me (Thinking to myself): That’s because you keep winning.
I am a Real American: Mount Union gets my nod for best pregame warm-up song. They use Real American, Hulk Hogan’s ring entry music during the 1980s. Classic!
My nod for weirdest intro music still goes to the Southern Maine women’s basketball who used a mix tape (or CD or MP3 or whatever) that went from Axel Rose to Winnie the Pooh in less than 90 seconds. Seriously.
Signs that you need a rest stop: Pennsylvania is a looong state to drive across. Around Altoona (or was it Allegheny County?) my eyes started to meander into the top of my head.
“Oooh…look at the pretty lights on that tractor trailer in front of me. Pretty lights…pre-tty lights…pre-tty..zzzz”
I woke up just before drifting off (to sleep and the road). Then I jammed my body so full of sugar, I was bouncing off the roof of my rental car the rest of the way home.
So now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to run a marathon and then pass out once all the saccharine works its way through my system…
December 11th, 2005 at 3:08 am
linfield lost…get over it
is there anyone who thinks that muc will give whitewater a run?
last time i checked muc usually did pretty well in these things you all call the “stagg bowl”
but then again i’ve only been there to witness them win it 3 times…maybe that’s not enough to give them a chance on sat
December 11th, 2005 at 8:57 am
Pat
“Kirasdad, guess you didn’t read my comment, posted an hour and a half before your response.”
Hmm. My posts were at 10:53pm and 10:58pm. 1.5 hours prior to that would be 9:23pm and 9:28pm. Don’t see any comments from you at those times.
Ah, just found it. Sorry I missed it last night. I was babysitting my 4 year old daughter and her two friends so the Women could go do Christmas shopping. I still think (hope may be better) that this MUC team will show up and give UWW a game of it.
December 11th, 2005 at 9:02 am
So what does happen if the one loss MUC wins in a rout next Saturday. Do we move UWW to the South next year so we don’t have the “Real Championship” in the West Finals?
I kind of like being the cocky underdog. Let me fire off some of the comments I have heard over the years:
“You haven’t seen a D like ours this year, it is time for the King to lose his crown”.
“Watch out WW, here comes the new champt”
etc…
December 11th, 2005 at 9:03 am
Damn, I wish we could edit our comments here like in Post Patterns. I will have to do a better job proofreading form now on.
December 11th, 2005 at 9:36 am
Your’re killing me kirasdad……you’re killing me….keep up the talk…I’m enjoying your BLOG’s…..
December 11th, 2005 at 9:42 am
I couldn’t agree more….get over the bracket scenerio…your teams lost..quit making excuses (wrong shoes etc…). Its Mount & WW (cheese country) and we’ll be underway Saturday. Can’t wait til gametime. I guess all of Wisconsin will be pulling for WW since the Lovable Packers are 2-12. Good luck !!
December 11th, 2005 at 11:04 am
1) Whitewater isnt cheese country. (very southern part of the state) 2) the Packers are 2-10, and a lot of people dont care, because they are bears fans. 3) Whitewater is better then MUC
December 11th, 2005 at 12:06 pm
Well, my trip to Whitewater was much more eventful than my trip back. A minor delay at O’Hare and was home by 1:10am ET. Now, interestingly enough, I write this from the USAirways Club in Philadelphia, back at the airport, waiting for a flight to Pittsburgh for my “real job.”
I can say I am probably one of a VERY few people who has seen both Mount Union and Whitewater this season. The OAC officials who called the WW/Wesley game join me in that category. But I have seen both of them in the playoffs…so bully for me.
I am struggling in my head about how to predict this game. The last two years have seen one team demolish it’s opponent in the semifinals. Linfield obliterated Rowan and played a close game with UMHB. Mount Union euthanized Bridgewater, 66-0, and scored 6 points in the big one, en route to a loss to St. John’s.
Neither of these teams, in my opinion, can match the level of the Mount Union teams that won the Stagg Bowl, or the Linfield/St. John’s units from 2003 and 2004. Again, this is coming from someone who has seen both play, two weeks apart, in the playoffs.
Mount is a better team since Nate Kmic has emerged as the main rushing threat. I was there for his breakout game and he ran for a Mount Union single game record of over 360 yards. Think about all the great Mount RBs over the years and this frosh came in and pierced Augustana’s run defense that was allowing 122 rushing yards per game. Kmic is a straight-forward threat who has accomplished more in the postseason that first-team OAC running back Aaron Robinson did in the regular season. That’s saying something.
Whitewater certainly has had a special run through the postseason. Don’t think that Wesley didn’t help the Warhawks cause with a putrid offensive gameplan going into Saturday’s game. There was no energy from the Wolverines all afternoon, not to mention some horrific mistakes early on when Wesley looked like they didn’t care if they picked up the football or not. Wesley slipped all over the place on the Perkins Stadium field while Whitewater looked like they were born on it.
Just as Bridgewater was completely outmatched versus Mount Union two years ago, so too looked the Wolverines. So much so, it’s hard to analyze the Warhawks based on that game. This much is clear…
This is a stat-sheet football game. Both offenses run straight at you and can be effective at passing ranges anywhere on the field. Beaver and Kmic will get their yards, Jorris will surely find Garcon and Casto while Jacobs will get his passes to Jim L and Stanley…this WILL happen. But who will it happen to more often – defense will win Stagg Bowl 33 in a close affair that I believe will come down to the last possessions of the fourth quarter.
As for a specific prediction…stayed tuned throughout the week.
December 11th, 2005 at 12:10 pm
Thanks Pat Cummings.
I was hoping to hear something from someone who had seen both teams play this year. I was thinking that the game may come down to MTU Defense vs. UWW Offense, especially with the two MTU CBs ailing. But, with all the depth that MTU usually has, I wouldn’t be surprised if the next one in line steps up and fills in admirably.
December 11th, 2005 at 12:28 pm
As a player on MUC’s ‘93 team I can tell you that every game we’ve played since the early “90’s has been our opponents biggest game of the year….EVERY GAME…everyone wants to knock us off. Kehres and company underestimate no one during the reagular season (kudos ONU), and anyone who know’s anything…wants no part of Mount in the playoffs (Dayton”92, St. Johns and Rowan ‘93, where we were undersized, slower….and hungrier. Since then, the talent pool has deepened, we’re bigger and faster within position depth charts…and have won more games than any team in all of college football. That’s what makes MUC so good….we work harded and we want it more AS A TEAM. If MUC is hungry and playing as a team, LK earns another ring. But we saw an arrogant MUC team a couple years ago in Salem, that got embarrased and beat up. This Stagg Bowl should be a good one.
December 11th, 2005 at 12:40 pm
This year’s Stagg Bowl looks like a headline grabber. If the game is evenly matched, it will probably come down to control of the line of scrimmage, turnovers and special teams play.
While Mount Unions defense is as good statistically as any in Division III, Whitewater’s isn’t too shabby either. It has taken a backseat to the Warhawks explosive offense all year long.
One statistic to ponder… Whitewater has forced 20 turnovers in its 4 playoff games and are plus-15 on their playoff run.
The Warhawks have recorded three interceptiions for TDs, a fumble recovery for a TD, and recorded a safety on the Wesley game’s first offensive play.
I don’t think it would be wise to overlook WW’s defense.
December 11th, 2005 at 1:20 pm
I don’t follow Rowan but I looked at their individual stats and their best runner (Encarnacion) was not on the field against Mount Union. I presume he was injured. I’m sure this hurt Rowan’s chances against MU. Not a follower of Whitewater but watched one of their games. Beaver (running back) and their QB have to be one of the best combos ever in D III.
December 11th, 2005 at 2:32 pm
Injured as in in a wheelchair, multiple fractures in his leg suffered against Union.
December 11th, 2005 at 4:55 pm
Don’t think our ‘Hawks are going to come into this without the drive they’ve had all season. Being in the band, I’m at every home game, and we even made a trip up to UW-Stout to cheer our hawks onto one of their many victories this year.
They are looking to match what many of our other athletic programs have done this calendar year. Our Wheelchair Basketball team, Baseball team, and Women’s Volleyball team have all won National Championships. The football team is looking to make this unexcusably the best year in Warhawk Athletics. And, if any of the Wesley fans that were at the game read this… grow up. We came to your side of the field doing a traditional run that my fraternity has done for many years at home football games. It was our 40th anniversary yesterday, and we weren’t going to miss the opportunity to do that run one more time this season.
See you in Virginia MUC, may the best team win, and can we see some good football? I’m a football fan before anything else, and I appreciate a good game.
December 11th, 2005 at 5:28 pm
Well,
I guess I have to clarify. I think the general public will assume UWW is the favorite because of who they have beaten and the scores they’ve put up. However, I am undecided on a favorite because I think great defense can neutralize great offense. If either team is favored, I wouldn’t go more than 3 points.
Honestly, how can Mount Union be a big underdog against anyone? Maybe a I-AA team … So this kind of stuff, I think, is a bit of a stretch:
“I have a feeling that the Purple Raiders like coming into this weekend’s game as an underdog with nothing to lose. Kind of like the attitude back in 1993.” (and I don’t mean to pick on kirasdad, a regular poster, so hopefully he’s a good sport)
It may remind you of 1993, it’s not my place to doubt that since I was not even a D3 player then, much less a writer, but I don’t think Mount Union or its fans come in thinking they’re the underdog, and I don’t think UWW thinks that way either … each team has done enough this season to go in believing … I have to see the tape of the UWW-Linfield game, and perhaps MUC-Capital 2 or MUC-Rowan to really get a feel for how each is clicking right now. (E-mail me at Keith@D3football.com if you can help me out on getting a tape from MUC) …
Bottom line though, what I was trying to say is, I think the general consensus will have UWW coming in as the favorite because many don’t acknowledge the affect a suffocating front 7 can have on an offense … and that appears to be Mount Union’s strength (although that doesn’t make their other parts weak)
(wrote this hours ago and forgot to click submit)
December 11th, 2005 at 9:46 pm
Have to laugh. That is the first time I saw a Band Member post on Post Patterns or Daily Dose defending their team.
I thought they were just there trying to pick up girls (“one time at band camp”) or keep their instruments from freezing to their lips, not actually watching the game.
Just kidding, please don’t flood me with “not all band members are like that” blogs.
December 11th, 2005 at 9:52 pm
Alfred University has had a band member posting on the message board in their defense all year.
I wonder if he plays the “Saxon-phone.” Ha! Get it?
Uh, yeah. Nevermind.
December 11th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
No harm done here Kieth. I was a senior in 93, but no longer playing (that is another story, too long to tell here) and I guess I got the feeling that we were the underdogs because it was our first trip there and we were playing those “D1 Transfers from Rowan” (no offense JT).
We had lost to Allegheny in 90 in the first round, then lost to UW-LAX in 92 in the semis, so we finally made it to the show and I think they felt like they had something to prove.
I don’t really think the players are coming in thining that they are the underdogs. I just like the fact that we did lose a regular season game this year and this team still has a chance to win it all. I am sure it is a nice change for them to “sort of” feel like the underdogs. Takes some of the pressure of all the “streaks” off of them.
December 11th, 2005 at 9:54 pm
Man, I switched adverbs enough in that post didn’t I?
We, they, us, them.
December 11th, 2005 at 9:55 pm
Duh, meant pronouns, not adverbs. I really got to quit trying to act all academic on here.
December 11th, 2005 at 10:42 pm
i was surprised when they announced at MUC stadium that the UW game was delayed because of frozen field conditions…i had never heard of that in my entire life
if anyone was there could you elaborate on what made that situation so unique that it would delay the game….it was in wisc for cryin out loud
i would think that people in that area would be use to frozen everything
December 11th, 2005 at 11:07 pm
I have also seen WW and Mount play this year and it will be a good game.
Mounts 70-0 win at JC was astounding. A game where one team could do no wrong and the other just couldn’t do anything right. A perfect game for the Raiders. JC proved they were a much better team than this game indicated with their play the rest of the year.
WW vs Stout was not a true indication of this WW’s abilities because they really didn’t have to show a whole lot. Beaver is a very patient runner who waits for his blocks to set up and then shoots through the hole. Quick and hard to find behind his linemen. Justin Jacobs has a very nice touch and his receivers run complete routes. He was able to complete some beautiful passes putting the ball where only the receiver was going to catch it. They fell behind Stout 10-0 in the first quarter and finished the game without allowing another point. They really didn’t look like the #2 team in the win but IMO they were playing to their competition.
The St Johns game was like the MUC-JC game. WW did everything right and St Johns couldn’t get anything going. WW was sharp and precise the whole game. I believe St Johns turned the ball over 7 times and it was like every player took his turn. When they had a couple of chances to get back in the game they just didn’t get it done. Jacobs and Beaver and their receivers are the real deal and Jacobs again put up some beautiful long pinpoint passes where receivers were the only player in a position to catch the ball. Their defensive line shut down a good Johnnies running game too. A complete win over a team with one of the best offenses and defenses in D3.
As we all know now they have followed it up with two more impressive wins.
That’s my plink plink…two cents on the subject.
Go Raiders!
December 11th, 2005 at 11:17 pm
Realistically Mount Union doesnt have a chance Sunday. They have squeaked by a weak Capital team and even a injury deplleted Rowan. All those past titles are a great accomplishment and there is great tradition at Mount Union but Whitewater is too talented. They didnt even play that well and still beat Linfield. Mount Union’s corners have no chance against Stanley and those guys. Seriously I would be impressed if Mount Union Holds them under 42 points Those guys stretch the field so much. I mean heck they lost to Ohio Northern, I mean come on who is Ohio Northern. Whitewater will win probably 38-7 or so. Depending if they try to stick in to Mt Union or not. Whitewater is probably the best D3 team that maybe that has ever won a title. The championship was played 2 weeks ago in Linfield. Oh yeah Wesley was really bad too hard to believe that team made semifinals???? Was that region really that weak?
December 11th, 2005 at 11:26 pm
Iknowitall,
Whitewater is not the best team to ever win the title for the simple reason that as of December 11, 2005 they have not won a d3 football national championship. And don’t let that double monkey stomp of Wesley fool you, the last two years the winner of one of the two regional title game wan by a 50+ point margin. Only one of those two teams went on to win the national championship.
December 11th, 2005 at 11:34 pm
Man, you have not been around D-III very long, have you, “knowitall” — Mount Union has more than a chance in ANY Division III game.
December 12th, 2005 at 12:16 am
mucborn&bred, Mount Union had a playoff game a cpl years back delayed an hour or so because of snow. Ironically it was against Wis-La Crosse in the 2003 second round.
December 12th, 2005 at 12:55 am
lknowitall,
I have to say. WW didn’t play well against Linfield? One penalty the entire first half and 1 turnover the entire game. They played great. Linfield turned the ball over 5 times that led to 13 points. Linfiled didn’t play that well, yet not one Linfield has been on here making excuses. They go beat, end of story.
I think it is great that you love WW but be honest, they have their hands full against MU. MU is the best DIII football program around. WW has never been this far and MU makes their reservations for Virginia in August. Anyway, please give respect to those who have earned it. MU is a great team and great program. WW is having a great year and is a really good team. Heck, I think they win on Saturday but be respecful. MU is the standard for all of DIII.
Linfield Alumni.
December 12th, 2005 at 1:20 am
fb fan…..I couldn’t of said it any better than YOU just did….so I won’t. Anyone who thinks that Mount doesn’t have a chance Saturday needs their head examined. Our 9th trip….ya count umm, nine and your 1st. Give me a break. All cocky and its not even Monday (even though it really is). I hope WW’s butt _____ doesn’t get too tight on Saturday given its first time (espn) on National T.V. Old hat to Mount and their coaching staff. I guess we’ll all have to wait and see come Saturday. I realize that WW is a very good fooball team, but don’t underestimate the RAIDERS. They’ve been making this Salem, VA trip for YEARS !! Until you’ve been their and won, you get NO props !! Win it… that’s when you’ll gain respect….but until then….BACK OFF junior !!!!!!!!
December 12th, 2005 at 1:21 am
Yeah, because a sign of maturity is using tons of capital letter and exclamation points.
December 12th, 2005 at 1:27 am
And by the way Iknowitall……you don’t know jack _____ !! There have been several Mount teams that completely BLEW away the competition in D3 Football over the years. Those were the BEST D3 teams ever, certainly not this 05′ WW team. Its quite obvious that you haven’t been following D3 football for very long. Do your homework, get the facts and we’ll talk. Until then, go to the frig and grab some CHEEDER !!!
December 12th, 2005 at 2:21 am
ric
great point…i had forgotten about that game
also i just found the article detailing why the game was delayed
sat is going to be one hellofa stagg bowl…espn2 should do us(as d3fb fans) proud
December 12th, 2005 at 2:45 am
any team where L.K is the head coach cannot be considered the underdog because when you win 55 in a row you know what it’s like to play with a bull’seye on your chest every saturday. if anyone can prepare a team for an outstanding offense it’s larry kehres.
finding a way to win EVERY saturday is what makes a dynasty
go muc
December 12th, 2005 at 9:46 am
bigmucfan….cheeder? wow. I dont care how much you like mount union, you have some real problems. I dont know if you read your posts before you send them, but you really sound like the biggest jerk on here. Your the only one on here who is making mount union fans look bad.
fb fan…..their were posts of people making excuses about the linfield-ww game. just not nearly as many as for the other schools who lost.
wrong shoes?
Go Warhawks
December 12th, 2005 at 10:38 am
Go Raiders!
The 2005 Raiders Football team has heard ever since the loss they aren’t good enough to win it all. THIS IS WHAT MOTIVATES THIS TEAM. They are hungry and they don’t care who they played. I stated this last week. WW hade a tough schedule to get to the Stagg Bowl. This is the way it works. The luck of the draw, or the unlucky part, however you care to look at it. It happened in the past to The Raiders and they did what they were supposed to do. They WON! They won it all beating every team that got in their way. This year we have two teams that have beat every team in the playoffs in their way and is why they are the last two standing. Mt. Union may not of been the best team this year according to most. But, don’t make the schedule. For the WW people complaining of how they had to get there. Who cares? Your there! Even if they put Linfield, St. Johns or even Mt. Union in different barckets. YOU STILL would have had to beat these teams. So instead of complaing. Look at what you beat if you win it all. If I’m not mistaken, It’s the last three National Champs. I don’t think you would want to play the cupcakes who were just lucky to be there. TO BE THE BEST, THEN BEAT THE BEST! Good luck to both teams!
GO RAIDERS!
December 12th, 2005 at 10:42 am
Here is the tale of the tape for the Stagg Bowl, pretty even statistically. I think that the school releases one with all the stats later in the week but this is all I found for now.
http://www.mtunionfootball.com/05whitewatertaleofthetape.htm
December 12th, 2005 at 11:29 am
Does anyone know a good link to directions…. from Ohio I know you get on 77S…. but after that… It is a mystery… I wasn;t sure if any driving directions had been posted anywhere…
Also, anyone from WW driving to Salem… If so, why haven’t you left yet??? lol and how many hours would that be…
Thanks to anyone that could point me in the right direction… Literally!!
GO RAIDERS!!
December 12th, 2005 at 11:34 am
Info at: http://www.d3football.com/staggbowl/ or by clicking the ad on the front page.
December 12th, 2005 at 12:29 pm
Bigmucfan,
You were right saying Mt Onion is the underdog – they are going to be crushed by UW Whitewater.
I can’t wait to cheer the victory of the team, who by far, has had the toughest competition in the playoffs. The number one team from the number one conference is going to be the National Champion this year, and it isn’t Mt. Onion.
Did you get beat up alot as a child? Eat paint chips?
As I have said before, I think your hot air is depleating you brain of much needed oxygen. Your posts are hopefully not representing the whole of Mt. Onion fans.
UW Whitewater has all the tools, and they are deep. Yes, Mt. Onion is good, but nearly as good, talented or tough as UW Whitewater.
What place are you in the pool smart guy?
Win four in a row like Augustana did. Can you do that? – no.
HERES TO UW WHITEWATER WINNING IT ALL, JUST LIKE I KNOW THEY WILL, AND HAVE BEEN PREDICITNG FOR MONTHS! When you play the toughest schedule, in the toughest conference, and beat the toughest teams, then you will be Champion – unlike Mt. Onion this year.
December 12th, 2005 at 12:38 pm
Yeah, there are a few of us band kids out watching the games. It was a trip trying to keep our instruments from freezing, but we were playing our fight song enough against Wesley, that we didn’t have to worry too much…
I’m not gonna get into the argument, we all know that there’s people in here that are for WW and people in here for MUC. We both want our respective teams to win, and the team that wins on Saturday will be the National Champs, simple as that.
On the note of the game being delayed, we have never, in my knowledge, had a game this late in the year. We had gotten a total of about 6 inches of snow that week, and I found a new respect for stadium crews, because I helped clear the stands on Friday. Anyways, there was a company from Michigan brought in to thaw out our field, and the moisture that was on the field collected in certain areas, and they had to actually chip the ice off of the field on Saturday morning, plus the company thawing out the field had to get their giant furnaces out of there. It’s Wisconsin, there’s not a whole lot we can do, especially when the snow and ice removal was basically on a volunteer basis, not hired hands.
Along with the cold weather situation, it was neat to hear that Barry Alvarez (UW Badger Coach and Athletic Director) called Coach Brez and offered the use of their indoor practice facility this past week. The Hawks only spent one afternoon/evening up there, but it was really cool to see backing from a respectable D-1/Big 10 program.
December 12th, 2005 at 12:40 pm
SeanGOP
You have a good team this year. No doubt about it. And if you win it all. A number of us have already said. You would have beaten the last three National Champs to do so. Not too bad. But, why do you continue to put the Mt. Union Purple Raiders down? Is it because they have won what you are seaking? If Mt. Union doesn’t have a leg to stand on to compare to Augustana, Then why are you running your mouth about a team that hasn’t won a thing. Not even once! I’m not about trashing your team or teams, whoever you are rooting for. Both teams won to get here so let them play. Do yourself a favor and read the WW website. They aren’t trash talking, neither is Mt. Union footballs players. Both schools know who stands in front of them and both teams want to win. Grow up and stop joining in on the trash talking and maybe people will start respecting you and you teams. Good Luck to both teams! Mt. Unions record speaks for it’s self and even the Great Augustana teams state this themselves.
December 12th, 2005 at 12:43 pm
Oh, and somebody asked, it’s about a 14 hour ride. We get to leave here Friday afternoon, toot our horns at the game, and head home right after. And to top it all of… It’s Finals Week!!
December 12th, 2005 at 12:47 pm
SeanGOP,
I am not doubting that UW-W is tough and it will be a great game. Yes you folks played the toughest playoff schedule but to claim your conference was the toughest as well, that my be a stretch. Mount Union plays in the OAC which on the main page of D3Football you will see that they are atop the standings for playoff history, sure alot of that is from us but other teams are good as well. Capital finished at number 16 in the top 25, Ohio Northern who someone said was a nobody finished number 20 and they are all in the OAC. John Carroll who we beat 70-0 also received votes to get into the top 25.
So I am not saying that this means we are a tougher team but we have had our fair share of tough competition this year so it is not like we have been playing a bunch of nobody teams.
Either way I cannot wait for the Stagg Bowl, please pick my name for the free hotel and tickets!!
December 12th, 2005 at 1:07 pm
I am not dissing Mount Union at all. They have great program But they will not be able to stay within 28 points of UWW. They are not physical enough up front and Beaver is gonna go for another 200 in this game. UWW whitewater’s wideouts are tremendous, Mount Union has not seen this type of speed all year. I mean Capitol went up and down the field on them. UWW has div I calaber athletes at the skilled positions. This won’t be a good game to watch, UWW will jump them fast with the passing game. I am not one to harp on how this playoff thing was seeded, I guess It would have been nice to be able to watch a 44-41 game with great plays and athletes on Espn, then some 41-7 game, which is what we are gonna get on Saturday. This UWW team is really unbeatable at this point.
December 12th, 2005 at 1:30 pm
Where are you SeanGOP?
December 12th, 2005 at 1:30 pm
SeanGOP,
Why do we still have to hear about Augustana? They got rolled by Mount Union. Their string of four titles has no importance in this discussion. Have you seen Mount Union play this year? If you haven’t, you are truly more unintelligent than your comments make you look. I have not seen WW play.
Even if I did, I wouldn’t be making ridiculous guarantees of victory for either team. This is the Stagg Bowl. I don’t see either team blowing the other out.
It can be done. Ask Lycoming or Widener or Augustana. All these school have deen demolished by Mount Union in past playoff games.
You also must have had your fair share of beatings as a child. Your comments reflect banter from a disturbed person.
Have you decided which bandwagon you are going to jump on next season?
Good luck to both teams. The Stagg Bowl could be one for the ages.
December 12th, 2005 at 1:38 pm
D3football.com
Great site you have here.
December 12th, 2005 at 1:39 pm
Well – as predicted, trash follows victory. As surprising as the 58-6 drubbing was this past weekend, its even more surprising to read the trash talk posts from the UWW following. Are you kidding me? You’re playing, outside of Trinity, CT’s Squash Team, one of the most dominating programs in any division in NCAA. You’ve won nothing – to date, yet you boast as if next Saturday is a formality. Congrats on a fine win at Linfield – squeeked out in the last minute – I’m sure those 5 interceptions didn’t help. As far as Wesley is concerned, we’ve seen that stripe before (47-0 loss at .500 non-playoff team). I saw Rowan play. MU played a Parcellian ball-control offensive strategy. Kept game close, let their big time players make big plays, and displayed their #2 defensive ranking (really #1, since Trinity only plays NESCAC schedule). I said it last week, defense wins championships. As the “47-0″ loss was a key underlying stat for Wesley last week, The 1/4 mile/plus that Linfield passed for agains UWW will be this week. Watch out, MU has shown a grind it out style the last four weeks. Maybe we’ll see an all out air attack this week. In which case, the boastful UWW faithful may find themselves on the losing side of a lopsided game. Can’t wait to see it. Only wish the deuce broadcast was available in High Def.
December 12th, 2005 at 1:47 pm
The great thing about Internet message boards is that everybody has a right to voice their opinion. I am not much for the trash talking, idiot fan dialogue, but to each his own.
First, I think UW-W has a great shot. While their confidence is at an all-time high (especially after sandwiching a difficult victory over Linfield on the road between a couple of easier playoff wins at home), their coaching staff has a great tool to keep their players grounded. When you play Mount Union, you know you have to play well to win. The coaching staff and players are well aware of the lopsided losses to Mount Union in 2002 and 2003. They also lost to St. John’s in the regular season back then and avenged that loss in the playoffs. Yes, UW-W is new to the Stagg Bowl, but not new to playing Mount Union, and they are not in awe, but well aware of the challenge they face. Nobody with an IQ above room temperature overlooks a team that has won seven national titles since 1993. That would be ignorant.
Second, somebody from Linfield was upset because somebody claimed that UW-W was able to win in McMinnville despite not playing well. Right or wrong, UW-W felt like having the ball inside the five three times and getting only three points kept the game closer than it should have been.
Third, somebody from Mt. Union was worried about the environment at UW-W and the lack of fan support because the stadium (I think it is the biggest in Division III, and it wasn’t built for a move to D-II, it has been there for 20+ years) never appears full. If you check, I think you will find that 3600 watched Rowan’s offense flounder against Mt. Union while 5600 watched Wesley look lost againt UW-W (and there weren’t many from Delaware).
Fourth, anybody talking conferences loses when they compare to the WIAC, Just look on this website and how they rank conferences. Don’t tell me about OAC playoff records. I readily admit that Mt. Union has been the model D-III football program for the last decade–how does the OAC look if we don’t count Mount Union’s scores in those totals. You might also consider how many times more than one team makes the playoffs from the WIAC (like almost never) because they get beat up in the league and private school coaches dominate the seeding panel. For the record, pre-season on this website top 25 (and others receiving votes) was UW-LaCrosse, UW-Whitewater, UW-Eau Claire, and UW-Stevens Point. At the end of the year, UW-Oshkosh managed to get some votes, and UW-Stout shows up in the NCAA team defense statistics, while River Falls shows up in the team rushing offense statisitics. Other than Platteville this year, nobody in the league was horrible (and they beat Augustana and Thiel last year). NOBODY matches the WIAC for depth of teams and nobody looking objectively will argue that they do. That is why Stevens Point ends up playing Linfield non-conference and UW-W ended up playing St. John’s AND Mt. Union non-conference. Most private schools in and around Wisconsin don’t want to play WIAC teams (check the scores of recent playof bound teams from St. Norbert’s and Lakeland against UW-W). Anybody know who the defending NCAA D-III champions in baseball, volleyball, and mens basketball are? (Whitewater, Whitewater, and Stevens Point)
You want to argue about who wins fine, but I think it has a chance to be every bit as good as the Linfield vs. UW-W game. Whoever turns it over will have a difficult time winning. If Kmic duplicates 48 for 160 then Mt. Union better dominate the time of possession or they will simply get outscored. This is NOT Rowan’s offense they are going to face. Both teams have had a great year, and I hope it is a great game and (of course) that UW-W wins.
My prediction
27 UW-W
20 Mt.Union
December 12th, 2005 at 2:56 pm
Wow! Someone mentioned Trinity (Conn.) squash and it wasn’t even me.
December 12th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
I agree with the comment about the WIAC
December 12th, 2005 at 3:03 pm
acoltfan – Just to point out a few things (mainly a good post though)….
1) What your conference baseball, basketball or volleyball teams do has nothing to do with how good your conference’s football teams are.
2) Where your teams rank in pre-Season has NOTHING to do with where they rank once the cleats hit the field.
3) If we aren’t to look at Mts’ record in the playoffs to get a look at how the OAC stands does that mean we don’t count the losses to Mt. as well since usually thats the team that knocked them out of the playoffs (not another team from another conference).
4) Complaining that the selection comittee is private school biased – come on!
5) Compairing who a team beat last year – WHY?
6)”If Kmic duplicates 48 for 160 then Mt. Union better dominate the time of possession or they will simply get outscored” – I tend to think that if a team runs close to 50 times they usually are controling the clock, it kind of goes without saying.
Is the WIAC a good conference…YES. Does that mean it’s the best or better than the OAC … NO. Your conference had 4 schools over .500 the OAC had 5 does that mean the OAC is better … maybe, but you can’t expect us to all just bow down to the WIAC because of some crazy concept you came up with to make sure that “NOBODY” would argue that they are the deepest in the country. Your argument just doesn’t have teeth.
December 12th, 2005 at 3:08 pm
Heh, you don’t think the OAC had more teams over .500 because the OAC had more teams? Come on, people. Don’t waste our time.
December 12th, 2005 at 3:13 pm
Did anyone happen to notice that 3 teams from the OAC were ranked all season? They would be Mt Union, Capital and Ohio Northern. Did you also happen to notice that john Carroll was ranked part of the season. Wow, what a weak conference!
December 12th, 2005 at 3:21 pm
d3 football is still the best because of the playoff system.
sat will pit the 2 best teams who earned their way to the final…no politics or deals to make money
just football
December 12th, 2005 at 3:21 pm
Nobody who knows anything about Division III football thinks the OAC is weak. If they say that, they’re either triyng to get under your skin or they don’t have a clue and aren’t worth listening to.
December 12th, 2005 at 4:25 pm
No chance? Isn’t Mount Union the No. 5 team in the country? Let’s get a little reality here! You can’t play the underdog card like that. Let’s just relax and enjoy the game without coloring it like some David vs. Goliath thing that it’s not.
December 12th, 2005 at 3:32 pm
Amen!
Both teams earned the right to play. But, there are a few people on this site who think Mt. Union should just stay home. I hope Larry Kehres posts these comments in the locker room. Or at least one of the coaches who I know for a fact visit this web-site. Mt. Union may not win this saturday. But, Waking up the sleeping giant might be a mistake.
December 12th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
Wow, you should be able to get college credit if you can understand the logic that shows up here!
Right now, it doesn’t matter which conference is best. It doesn’t matter which team is best. It only matters which team can manage can score the most points on Saturday.
December 12th, 2005 at 3:46 pm
I’m going to guess they (MUC) don’t need to post up some of these ridiculous comments from a website to get hyped up. It’s the Stagg Bowl.
By the way, new to this site. I’m still feeling my way around it. Looks excellent and is yet another facet to drive me away from the important things I should really be doing….
Just a quickie…some people seem to simply overlook the fact that there are only two teams that make it to the championship game. If your team lost during the single elimination process, they don’t deserve to be there. To get there you have to beat whoever is in front of you – both teams have, both are deserving.
Last thing. It seems like many MUC fans are PUSHING for them to be the underdog. Granted there may be a “line” on the game, but overstating the fact that people (as in real UW-W fans/players) are looking past MUC is proposterous. It seems as though saying you’re the underdog makes you yourself feel better about the situation. Just an observation.
Anyway, again, great site. I’m heading down to Virginia for the game. It should be a classic between the two top teams in the country.
December 12th, 2005 at 3:49 pm
No kidding! I was just looking for “acoltfan” to reply with some info to justify that the Wisc conf is the best.
December 12th, 2005 at 3:55 pm
Well, we’ll back them on that. It’s the strongest league top to bottom, they have compiled a great non-conference record year after year while playing a steady diet of D-II schools because most of the teams in the area won’t schedule them.
While other conferences are strong at the top, the WIAC in years past has had eight teams all comfortably in the Top 80 or so, the upper third of Division III. Just because their teams have happened to been seeded to play the likes of Linfield, St. John’s and Mount Union on the road the past six years (because the conference champ in a tough, balanced league rarely emerges unscathed) doesn’t mean they are not the best conference in the country.
I wrote a story to this point about a week and a half ago:
http://www.d3football.com/news.php?item=944
December 12th, 2005 at 3:55 pm
That does not mean we think the OAC is weak. It’s merely No. 2 or No. 3 (depending on where we rank it vs. the NWC from year to year) out of 25 or so conferences.
December 12th, 2005 at 4:13 pm
pcole
Thanks for the clarification. I just get a little peeved when others spout off about how great their team or conference is without any stats or info to back up their claims.
December 12th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
We need to just focus on Football Right now. The OAC has had it’s share of Dynastys in others sports. Marietta had Baseball locked for years. But, Right now it’s Football season at it’s best. The mighty powerfull W-W and the underdog Mt. Union Purple Raiders. Sounds like a Division 1 story of a few years ago. Anyone remember that? The Buckeye’s had no chance against Miami.
December 12th, 2005 at 4:43 pm
Most importantly, is there a better mascot at dancing than Whitewater’s Willie?
December 12th, 2005 at 4:52 pm
If there has been one area where the Warhawks have struggled lately it has been inside the opponents ten yard line. They had a hard time moving the ball against St. Johns and missed a couple of opportunities against Linfield. It could be a problem again against Mt. Union’s vaunted front seven.
December 12th, 2005 at 5:02 pm
Just misc. reading info for anyone interested…. On paper… Nearly identical…
http://www.muc.edu/athletics/men_s_teams/football/mount_union_vs_uw_whitewater_game_notes
P.S. hope the link actually works… it’s also at MUC.edu
December 12th, 2005 at 5:13 pm
I think people are just living in the past about Mount Unions greatness. They had their run and it was awesme one. UWW should win two titles with what they have coming back next year. They took their lumps couple years ago against MTU and it looks like it payed off. So I give MTU credit for showing them the way. Just no way they can stay with Whitewater in this game. In my mind it would take 5 or 6 turnovers to make this game close. Football is game of speed and athletes and UWW is on a roll right now. Jacobs doesn’t make any mistakes. MT thinks they are gonna run some guy 50 times they are wrong. UWW front seven is very tough. LBs are very athletic. Could be lots of 3 and outs if MTU trys to play smashmouth football against UWWs front seven. In whitwaters close game this year against Lacrosse they kept it close with strong corner play and a strong passing game. I dont see MTU featuring either of these two strengths!
December 12th, 2005 at 5:20 pm
Again the underdog statement. In my eyes (maybe I’m blind beyond belief) you are using the underdog statement as a cop-out, so to speak.
Yes, UW-W may be the favored one heading in, but no logical football fan doesn’t give MUC a chance. Of course they have a chance, a good one.
The reason for the cop-out scenerio is because 1) If Whitewater ends up winning, then we will read how they were favored all along and they were the best team in the country this year hands down, etc…..
2) BUT if Mount Union ends up winning, you will obviously say they won because they were mad about being an underdog, Whitewater is overrated, the WIAC sucks, etc. etc.
So either way, MUC wins.
December 12th, 2005 at 5:35 pm
here is how I see it these are the two best teams from the two best conferences period! Otherwise they wouldn’t be playing in the game. Both teams belong at the Stagg Bowl because they won every game up to this point and reguardless if you say well WW got lucky at Linfield and on the flip side if you say MU had an EZ draw well you know what WW beat Linfield and it was not up to MU who they had to draw against look they won which means on the days they played the games they were the better teams because there is only one stat that matters in the end and that is the score! Honestly it doesn’t matter what people say oh it is going to be close or it will be a blow out if the game was played on paper then you could say that but that is exactly why they play the game. Those people who say that Linfield isthe best D3 team well you kow what apparently they are not otherwise they would have beaten WW and been in the stagg bowl. Why doesn’t eveyone just relax with the trash talking and enjoy a great game that is set up on Saturday. You are seeing what true heart and love for the game really is D3 football. Good luck to all the players and I hope it is a awesome game and I am looking foward to it.
GO WARHAWKS!!!!!
December 12th, 2005 at 5:35 pm
here is how I see it these are the two best teams from the two best conferences period! Otherwise they wouldn’t be playing in the game. Both teams belong at the Stagg Bowl because they won every game up to this point and reguardless if you say well WW got lucky at Linfield and on the flip side if you say MU had an EZ draw well you know what WW beat Linfield and it was not up to MU who they had to draw against look they won which means on the days they played the games they were the better teams because there is only one stat that matters in the end and that is the score! Honestly it doesn’t matter what people say oh it is going to be close or it will be a blow out if the game was played on paper then you could say that but that is exactly why they play the game. Those people who say that Linfield isthe best D3 team well you kow what apparently they are not otherwise they would have beaten WW and been in the stagg bowl. Why doesn’t eveyone just relax with the trash talking and enjoy a great game that is set up on Saturday. You are seeing what true heart and love for the game really is D3 football. Good luck to all the players and I hope it is a awesome game and I am looking foward to it.
GO WARHAWKS!!!!!
December 12th, 2005 at 5:47 pm
I’m sure the fans are excited about the national coverage, and that they get to see a game other than a home game, and it’s not on our local campust TV station. I guarantee you Coach Brez and the rest of the coaching staff are keeping our guys’ heads in playing one more game. Cliché… take it one game at a time.
These guys have given us an amazing season, win or lose at the Stagg Bowl, and I’m sure everyones’ grades on finals will reflect the attention everybody’s paying to the football team.
pcole, you posted that link to the article you wrote a little while back. Yes, we have the backing of the WIAC, but we have the backing of UW-Madison Badgers Coach/Athletic Director Barry Alvarez as well. When preparing for Wesley last week, he invited the team to practice up there in the Badgers’ indoor practice facility all week if they wanted to. The team only spent one day up there, but it sure was appreciated.
I look forward to getting to play our fight song at a game with as much magnitude as the Stagg Bowl. I had the opportunity to march on Lambeau Field at half time of the Saints game in October. If you know anything about the history of that field, you can imagine how excited I was to be there. Well, I’m feeling almost the same excitement to come down to Virginia to backup our very own Warhawks. A running joke our director has is that every game we’ve (the band) played at this year, the team has won. I hope that stands true for the Championship, but like I said before, it will be decided on the field on Saturday.
December 12th, 2005 at 7:30 pm
To all those going to the game…. Keep an eye out for me… I’ll be the guy with the “RAIDERS” hat on… Flag me down and say hi… :-}
December 12th, 2005 at 7:42 pm
mikeb525 said:
“To all those going to the game…. Keep an eye out for me… I’ll be the guy with the “RAIDERS” hat on… Flag me down and say hi… :-}”
Hey look for me too. I’ll be the guy there wearing a t-shirt and pants.
December 12th, 2005 at 7:51 pm
Both Whitewater and MUC have had great seasons this year. And yes MUC does of experiance in the Stagg Bowl but history means nothing. Each year is a new set of players a new level of talent. I don’t care about this talk about the WIAC is the best conference or what not. All that matters right now is that this saturday the new national champion will be crowned. It should be a good game and I would like to congradulate every player who has made it this far they have worked their butts off. GOOD LUCK BOTH TEAMS!!! It should be a good one
December 12th, 2005 at 7:51 pm
This will be one of the best D3 games in recent memory. It’s looking like it will be just as good, if not better, a game that UW-W vs. Linfield was. Remember this: Whitewater’s offense will be returning 9 of 11 starters next year including Player of the Year candidate Justin Beaver (RB). The defense will be returning just as many! This team has all the makings to put together a great run for the upcoming years and will only help in recruiting more talent. Every great “dynasty”, such as the one Mt. Union has developed, has to start somewhere and I say this is a great building block. Good luck to Mt. Union, but watch out for the ‘Hawks! We’re in for a battle and it will be one for the record books.
December 12th, 2005 at 7:55 pm
wildcat1144 said: “Hey look for me too. I’ll be the guy there wearing a t-shirt and pants.”
And sleeping in the parking lot, right?
December 12th, 2005 at 8:32 pm
UWWFan
“And yes MUC does of experiance in the Stagg Bowl but history means nothing.”
I would agree that history means nothing in terms of these teams playing between the lines. But History does help the mental aspect some for the Raiders as they have the exprerince of knowing what to expect from what hotel they are staying at, what the press confernces will be like, to how long the bus ride is to the stadium. All of that helps in keeping an even keel going into the game.
December 12th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Pat,
I was thinking about my trip last year to Salem and how that it may go down the annals as one of the all time most teribble road trips to Salem.
December 12th, 2005 at 11:34 pm
PCole,
“Heh, you don’t think the OAC had more teams over .500 because the OAC had more teams? Come on, people. Don’t waste our time.”
So sorry to waiste your valuable time…but by your same logic if we are such an inferior conference to the WIAC then our extra teams not being as good from top to bottom would be that much worse and provide for more opportunity to have more teams under 500. You didn’t need to get the panties in a bunch!
December 12th, 2005 at 11:51 pm
I’ll take your word for it and hope someone else can translate that run-on sentence of yours into something in English.
This is why English classes and grammar are important, people.
December 13th, 2005 at 12:00 am
I understand that…. in a confused manner… sorta… kinda…
Early… and am sorry if too early… but..
Game weather outlook is in the mid-40’s…. T-shirt and shorts may be in the forcast WILDCAT1144…
I am excited to see (if it holds) a clear day of championship football so that there are no excuses on either side… just great football…
Don’t you all agree??
December 13th, 2005 at 12:08 am
holy crap…i’m so pumped for this game and it’s only tues morning
i find myself spending every free moment checking this board to see what’s new…i’d say i need help but i think i’m ok with this
at least the game is sat and not early jan (the buckeyes-nd game will have to wait)
December 13th, 2005 at 11:02 am
Alright- this blog seems dead today- so let me throw this out there.
And I ask this question with very little knowledge of Mt Union College,
it’s academic principles, etc…
But is Mt Union interested in moving up to div 1AA ??
Former D3 schools with not nearly Mt Union’s success come to mind- Dayton, Hofstra, Wagner- moved to div 1AA.
I don’t mean this in a bad way Mt Union fans but these stats are crazy-
8 championship games in the last 10 years.
A 54 game win streak, followed by a 55 game win streak.
Then again- I’m sure playing for a national championship every year never gets old…
December 13th, 2005 at 11:15 am
Although playing against a stellar front 7, Justin Beaver should be able to get the 91 yards for the all-time rushing record in D3. Whitewater’s offense is too balanced to just focus on Beaver, which obviously helps him, and is why he will get it. It’s hard to keep him under 100 yards, especially if it’s a close game. I think his lowest total this year is 140, and he only played in the first half.
Also, just a question, probably stupid yes, but is the Gagliardi Trophy winner always announced before the championship game? Kind of different. I figure they’d wait.
If Elliot gets it, I think Beaver should be second on that list. In the NCAA stats it says he’s a junio, but he’s just a sophomore this year.
December 13th, 2005 at 11:17 am
rigg0123,
It may happen but I do not think in the near future. Our new President of the college wants to expand enrollment and build a new recreation center, and possibly apartments on campus. He wants to expand the college but I do not think we would make it to D1-AA. Our stadium holds 5,000 but with standing room and student section it can get close to 8,000. I do not think that is big enough to be D1-AA. It would be exciting to see and maybe one day Mount might actually move up but not in the near future.
December 13th, 2005 at 11:21 am
This gets brought up every year and every year the same answer is there … NO. Did people bug Augustana about this each year too?
December 13th, 2005 at 11:22 am
One other question, why does everyone want move us immediately to 1AA and not to D2 first…just curious.
December 13th, 2005 at 11:42 am
acoltfan has written great stuff.
I am not here to smear all Mt. Onion fans, just BIGMUCFAN for his constant “bla bla bla I’m great” crap.
Mt. Onion probably has 99% great fans – it is the 1% who act like bigmucfan that give the rest a soiled reputation.
UW Whitwater 35 (at least)
Mt. Onion 21 (at most)
I don’t think Mt. Onion fans realize just how dominating UW Whitewater really is. They will find out soon enough.
December 13th, 2005 at 11:48 am
Why is it everyone wants a school of a little over 2000 students to move up when you have schools with almost 9000 students still in D3?
December 13th, 2005 at 12:00 pm
Most D3 schools have an Avg. of 2000 students. Then there is the select few schools such as Rowan and the Wisc. schools. All of which start around 5000 and go up to 8900 students. These schools have more students to pick from for their Athletics. These schools should dominate simply by the number of students. Is there a break off point by students body which makes you a certain Division?
December 13th, 2005 at 12:01 pm
This isn’t high school. It’s not like UWW is recruiting players by hanging up signs in the hallways and taking the best 100 walk-ons. Those players are all recruited specifically to come to UWW, like everywhere else in D-III.
“is the Gagliardi Trophy winner always announced before the championship game? Kind of different.”
Yes. Always announced before the championship game. Kind of like the Heisman.
December 13th, 2005 at 12:03 pm
The reverse could be said about Mount Union and its roster that approaches 200 players. The WIAC imposes a 100-man roster limit on its football teams, yet Mount Union has nearly twice as many.
In truth, NEITHER numeric disparity is a factor in the schools’ football success, but fingers could easily be pointed in either direction.
December 13th, 2005 at 12:30 pm
Wasn’t pointing fingers. I was simply using facts to ask the question of what makes a school D1, D2 or D3.
December 13th, 2005 at 12:57 pm
Notre Dame has about 11,500 students. UW-Whitewater has about 10,500. Obviously a lot more than school size determines which division you are in and even how good of a team you have.
December 13th, 2005 at 1:04 pm
so if division isn’t determined by enrollment…then what is the deciding factor?
December 13th, 2005 at 1:07 pm
I think stadium size and attendance are a big factor in determining a team’s division
December 13th, 2005 at 1:11 pm
Game strategy: I wouldn’t be surprised if the Warhawks came out passing early in order to loosen up the defense for Beaver. I would expect Mt. Union to be trying to stop Beaver at first and challenging Whitewater to beat them with the passing game. Thoughts?
December 13th, 2005 at 1:20 pm
SeanGOP,
“Mt. Onion probably has 99% great fans – it is the 1% who act like bigmucfan that give the rest a soiled reputation.”
I think maybe if you didn’t keep insulting all of the Mt. folks by insisting on the Mt. Onion reference than maybe you’d be taken a little bit seriously. As it stands right now all I can do is assume that you’re WW’s 1% and not hold it against the rest of their fans.
December 13th, 2005 at 1:21 pm
hmm…well if that’s the case then muc would not be able to move at all.
the stadium on sat wasn’t even completely full. lot of empty seats on the visiting side. now i know that a lot of those seats were reserved for rowan fans who understandably didn’t make the trip from NJ but still.
i was actually a little disappointed to not see a larger crowd…can’t complain about the enthusiasm and noise though
December 13th, 2005 at 1:25 pm
I thought that division assignment was basically decided on how many athletic scholarships a school wanted to hand out and that everything else was secondary.
December 13th, 2005 at 1:27 pm
Who knows how it works. John Hopkins is D3 football but D1 in lacrosse.
December 13th, 2005 at 1:29 pm
In fact until a few years ago. UConn was D1 in Basketball and D2 ithink in football.
December 13th, 2005 at 1:35 pm
I understand that the Heisman is announced before the D1 championship game. Thanks for belittling me
They do it nearly a month before the game, while they announced the Gagliardi winner four days beforehand. Not that it makes a huge difference, I was just curious. Thanks.
December 13th, 2005 at 1:36 pm
According to the NCAA
Here is what a college needs to do to be considered Div I – or Div ! A
An institution classified in Division I-A shall meet all the Division I membership requirements set forth in NCAA Bylaws 20.9.1 through 20.9.5 and in addition, shall:
1. Sponsor a minimum of 16 varsity intercollegiate sports, including football, based on the minimum sports sponsorship and scheduling requirements set forth in Bylaw 20. Sponsorship shall include a minimum six sports involving all male teams or mixed teams (males and females), and a minimum of eight varsity intercollegiate teams involving all female teams. Institutions may use up to two emerging sports to satisfy the required eight varsity intercollegiate sports involving all female teams. [Bylaw 20.9.6.1]
2. Schedule and play at least 60 percent of its football contests against members of Division I-A. During the 2004-05 and 2005-06 seasons, the institution shall schedule and play at least four regular season home football contests against members of Division I-A. Thereafter, the institution shall schedule and play at least five regular season home contests against Division I-A opponents. [Bylaw 20.9.6.2]
3. Annually average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.6.3]
4. Provide an average of at least 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of overall football grants-in-aid per year over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.6.4-(a)]
5. Annually offer a minimum of 200 athletics grants-in-aid or expend at least four million dollars on grants-in-aid to student-athletes in athletics programs. [Bylaw 20.9.6.4-(b)]
December 13th, 2005 at 1:52 pm
For those with division questions…
This is from 2003-04, so possibly a bit outdated, but the best I could find on a quick search.
http://www.ncaa.org/library/membership/division_i_manual/2003-04/2003-04_d1_manual.pdf#
Bylaw 20 talks about division requirements. Hopefully you can find all the info you want, but you do have to dig and scroll a lot.
December 13th, 2005 at 2:05 pm
Augustana was never asked of they were going to be moving from D3 after the National Championships, but I am told that Coors offered to build for free a new stadium (major rehab of the old one) if we sold Coors there.
Agustana said, “Thanks but no thanks”. NOOOOOOOOOOO.
December 13th, 2005 at 2:16 pm
I’d look at athletic department budgets before I’d look to enrollment figures for an answer. What you can afford determines where you want to go.
December 13th, 2005 at 2:25 pm
Well part of what makes a school a D! school is the fact they give out full athletic schlorships whereas D3 are not allowed. As institutuions they can give out only academic schlorships but I am also sure there are other factors as well.
December 13th, 2005 at 2:48 pm
Here’s something I found on an NCAA site:
What’s the difference
between Divisions I, II and III?
Division I
Division I member institutions have to sponsor at least seven sports for men and seven for women (or six for men and eight for women) with two team sports for each gender. Each playing season has to be represented by each gender as well. There are contest and participant minimums for each sport, as well as scheduling criteria. For sports other than football and basketball, Div. I schools must play 100% of the minimum number of contests against Div. I opponents — anything over the minimum number of games has to be 50% Div. I. Men’s and women’s basketball teams have to play all but two games against Div. I teams, for men, they must play 1/3 of all their contests in the home arena. Schools that have football are classified as Div. I-A or I-AA. I-A football schools are usually fairly elaborate programs. Div. I-A teams have to meet minimum attendance requirements (17,000 people in attendance per home game, OR 20,000 average of all football games in the last four years or, 30,000 permanent seats in their stadium and average 17,000 per home game or 20,000 average of all football games in the last four years OR, be in a member conference in which at least six conference members sponsor football or more than half of football schools meet attendance criterion. Div. I-AA teams do not need to meet minimum attendance requirements. Div. I schools must meet minimum financial aid awards for their athletics program, and there are maximum financial aid awards for each sport that a Div. I school cannot exceed.
Division II
Division II institutions must sponsor at least five sports for men and five for women or four sports for men and six for women, with two team sports for each gender, and each playing season represented by each gender. There are contest and participant minimums for each sport. Division II schools must meet minimum financial aid awards for their athletics program, and there are maximum financial aid awards for each sport that a Division II school cannot exceed. Division II teams usually feature a number of local or in-state student-athletes. Many Division II student-athletes pay for school through a combination of scholarship money, grants, student loans and employment earnings. Division II athletics programs are financed in the institution’s budget like other academic departments on campus. Traditional rivalries with regional institutions dominate schedules of many Division II athletics programs.
Division III
Division III institutions have to sponsor at least five sports for men and five for women, with three team sports for each gender, and each playing season represented by each gender. There are minimum contest requirements for all sports and minimum participant requirements for individual sports. Division III athletics features student-athletes who receive no financial aid related to their athletic ability and athletic departments are staffed and funded like any other department in the university. Division III athletics departments place special importance on the impact of athletics on the participants rather than on the spectators. The student-athlete’s experience is of paramount concern. Division III athletics encourages participation by maximizing the number and variety of athletics opportunities available to students, placing primary emphasis on regional in-season and conference competition.
December 13th, 2005 at 3:53 pm
I’m still amazed that Mount Union carries 200 players on its football team. The football budget must dwarf the budget for all other sports. How large are the practice facilities, or even the training facilities. Actually, I don’t know how you could carry 200 players. How many full time coaches do they have? How many connections can a coach make – aren’t there players that he doesn’t even know? There have to be a lot of players that never even dress for a game in their career. It’s not like you’re at Notre Dame.
December 13th, 2005 at 4:16 pm
Coach K doesn’t believe in cutting players since they are all volunteers more or less (no scholarships). They get nothing fancy on away games just box lunches. We have decent facilities but those have come over time and winning the NCs didn’t hurt any there. When I was there 10 yrs back the football team dressed in a hundred year old gym locker room so it wasn’t till recently that they even got a decent locker room. They do use some grad assistants to help coach but exact number of “full” time coaches I’m not sure (one assistant is the tennis head coach). I’d like to know how he keeps it all organized at practice with that many bodies, but apparently he does it quite well. I’m not sure what the rule is for number of players dressed at home games, but don’t forget we also have JV games so players not getting time on the Varsity squad don’t get rusty for 2+ years.
December 13th, 2005 at 4:24 pm
Pat,
While it is true that D3 is not high school, you could probably make an argument (even though no D3 school gives athletic scholarships) that a larger public institution of say 10,000 students has some advantage over a private institition of 1,000. Private schools tuition in many cases is double or more of many public institutions. A larger institution can also offer more majors which could be a factor in recruiting. I know these are just two of many factors that go into making this type of decision. No agenda on this other than just something to think about.
Can’t wait until Saturday!!
December 13th, 2005 at 4:33 pm
Foxden and TJE:
That’s very useful information. Thanks for sharing.
December 13th, 2005 at 5:23 pm
lilpeds:
Fair enough, my bad.
Makes sense to announce it then, though, when there’s media attention on Division III and people in town to see it. Also, since the voting is completed around the time of the national quarterfinals, it already isn’t taking the fianal game into account. Better to do it beforehand, frankly, than compile votes before and announce after.
December 13th, 2005 at 5:24 pm
The advantage a state school like the WIAC schools have isn’t the size of the student body, it’s the size of the tuition. It’s a little easier to recruit non-scholarship athletes when your tuition isn’t $30,000.
Rowan has the same advantage. Glassboro State wasn’t a powerhouse until old man Rowan gave the school something like $20+ million. At which the school changed it’s name to Rowan University and tuition became very affordable. Nothing like going to a good private school for the same money as an in-state public school.
And on the subject of MUC having a 200+ roster, that many players is actually a hinderence, not an advantage. LK’s opinion is that if someone is willing to work at practice, then he earns the right to wear the purple on Saturdays. And at home games, everyone dresses. Which makes the entrance thru the tunnel a 5 minute process. What I don’t like about rosters is the NCAA’s restriction on playoff roster size (48? or 52?). There are many MUC players that have started all season on special teams that can’t make the playoff roster jsut because you have to carry a 3rd QB just in case. Those kids worked just as hard as the starters on O and D, but get jipped out of the playoff experience. I understand that the NCAA can’t pay for all 200 kids to travel, but if the school wants to pay for the extra kids, they should have that option.
December 13th, 2005 at 5:40 pm
Rowan is still a state school, HSCoach.
December 13th, 2005 at 6:09 pm
Number of Athletic scholarships is the number one factor between the divisions. And as we all know, if you want to be D-III you can’t give any. Although….Financial Aid packages often times are the exact same thing under a different name. Another interesting thing in the difference between D-I and DI-AA. D-I schools can not give out partial scholarships for football and basketball. it’s all or nothing. D-IAA can divide a scholarship up any number of ways. And lastly, if an athlete plays more than one sport at the D-I level, the schoralship HAS to be counted against the biggest program..i.e. football. This stops schools from giving a kid a track scholarship when in reality he’s going to be playing football.
December 13th, 2005 at 7:06 pm
It was a 100 million dollar endowment to start an engineering school in South Jersey. Not a penny assisted an athletic programs. In fact Glassboro State’s football program was starting the turnaround under John Bunting. He got Glassboro State’s first playoff win. He lost to national champ Ithaca in 1991 in the second round. In 1992, he made it to the semifinal before moving on to coach linebackers with the KC Chiefs.
Until Rowan put down field turf they practiced on a 60 yard “grass” field with a crooked goal post. So it is the program, not the facilities that attract players.
I wish Rowan had half the facilities that Mount Union has.
December 13th, 2005 at 9:20 pm
Pat
should I paste my pros and cons of private and state schools ideas here from my post in the ODAC Reply #4566 ?
December 13th, 2005 at 9:25 pm
Pat
On second Thought maybe that should have it’s own start.
December 13th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
mt union’s facilities def benefited from winning a few games in a row and a few national champs
but that can be said for any program at any level
December 13th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
actually now that i think about it my dad was showing me his yearbook from 81 and the pics of the stadium arn’t very impressive…and the upgrades have only come in the last 5 years
December 14th, 2005 at 1:38 am
Also,
the suggestion to move Mount to I-AA … not sure why any school would move “up” unless it was trying to expand its overall enrollment. Division III is likely more cost-effective than all but the best Division I-As who can depend on a steady attendance at six home games a year to fund athletics.
The thing about going I-AA is that all your sports would have to go I-AA, I believe. I know there are exceptions for playing up, like Johns Hopkins lacross and RPI hockey, but I can’t think of a football example. Seems like Mount Union has a good thing going on in the OAC, where the league champion appears to be competitive on a national level no matter the sport, and it’s not like Mount dominates in other sports. The travel is reasonable, the OAC schools are similar academically and price-wise I believe, which creates a pretty even playing field for recruiting across all sports (and if you ask coach Kehres, playing so deep into the season puts MUC behind the recruiting 8Ball. I’m sure it’s not a major complaint and he would much rather be winning championships, but that’s a legitimate concern … the flipside is that the extra games mean half a season’s worth of extra reps in practice for the backups and developing players, etc.)
HS coach, one more thing you need to understand about Rowan … it would help if you knew something about South Jersey. The state as a whole is basically a whole bunch of working-class or well-off suburban schools where the athletic competition, catholic schools that can recruit included, is fierce … and then at the college level, there is not much to serve the student-athlete population that wants to move on and continue to play. Football-wise, there is I-A Rutgers and zero Division I-AA or IIs of consequence. That’s why if you look at the Big Ten, ACC and Big East rosters, they’re all always littered with NJ players … even the Big 12 sometimes. Then after the cream of the crop is raided by schools from other states, that other level of talent pretty much has state schools to choose from. New Jersey is not a big state, but Rowan is the only Division III football school in South Jersey, unless you count Trenton as south … so basically, there’s the tradition of success just a cut below Mount Union, there’s the state-school price and the lack of other nearby schools having an edge at attracting those kids. A lot of them play elsewhere in the NJAC, in the MAC or at places like Wesley, but Rowan often has the pick of the litter. Unlike a state like Ohio, which has Akron, Kent, Dayton and perhaps even Cincinnati in its pre-Big East days recruiting the same kids the good D3s go after, or a state like Virginia, where the D3s battle Richmond, William & Mary, James Madison, Liberty, Hampton et. al., it’s pretty much either 1. good enough to go anywhere 2. Penn State. 3. Rutgers/Lehigh 4. Rowan 5. rest of the NJAC/MAC/ACFC.
(Wisconsin is similiar in that you go to Madison and/or any school you want, or you go to one of the UWs. There’s not a big pocket of I-AAs, IIs or NAIAs out there because their network of state schools serves that need.)
Those are the advantages, not the $100 million endowment or the enrollment. Many of those kids, my cousins at least, live at home and go to Rowan like it’s a commuter school anyway, so I’d have to agree with Pat … the overall enrollment is a misleading figure. It may be an indicator of institutional health/ability to support the program, but other than that, the advantages/disadvantages are the same ones faced elsewhere in Division III recruiting.
Man, I cannot write short for the life of me …
December 14th, 2005 at 9:10 am
Anyone who is complaining about a few WW fans being arrogant needs to go read the OAC thread.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:20 am
D3Keith,
Good Post. One small correction though. There is no such thing as D-IAA in any other sport than football. If you play I-AA in football, then you play D-I in all other sports.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:42 am
Not looking to start anything, just pointing out that under closer scrutiny, the arrogant accusation can be applied to both sides.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:02 am
AGIAN
UW Whitewater 35 (at least)
Mt. Onion 21 (at most)
December 14th, 2005 at 10:18 am
SeanGOP
Aren’t you the Augustana fan?
December 14th, 2005 at 10:20 am
SeanGOP- You wrote yesterday that you were sick of Bigmucfan and all of his “blah blah blah I’m great” crap. Well, that’s the only kind of stuff you are writing. You’ve contributed nothing worth reading either.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:12 am
d3Keith, with regards to football in Wisconsin, one can explain it with a riddle.
Name the only non-D3 NCAA football program in the state of Wisconsin. Hint: Their mascot is the Badgers.
IMHO, the biggest “8″ reasons that the WIAC has strong football programs are the lack any football programs at public universities in that state.
Look at Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas or the schools in the Deep South. There are numerous outstanding programs in D1AA or D2 that frequently have NFL calibre talent. Those schools are brimming with players who would dominate in D3.
Were Wisconsin to focus its D1AA/D2 calibre talent into 2 state schools and/or were Marquette to resurrect a glorious football tradition rather than diffusing it among the WIAC, CCIW, MWC and IBFC, the talent in that state would make that D1AA/D2 school a national power.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:13 am
Yes I am an Augustana fan / alum, but I also have recognized for years the quality of the WIAC – especially this year and the dominating UWW team.
raidergal,
I can appreciate your concern, however I have read so many of bigmucfan’s dribble that I could handle no more of it. Since I have been so critical, his tone has shifted to one of fact and logic. I am greatful for that, as I am sure are all the other readers.
As far as not contributing – hah.
If you would like to see how your team measures up, then I suggest you check out the Massey Ratings. Check the link below.
http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf&sub=III&mid=6
It is dead on. Check out the conference ratings Mt. Onion fans. It takes depth to be #1.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:13 am
I have been a d3football.com regular for sometime and a daily visitor of the sight during this entire season. I have read every post since the playoffs began and have simply sat back and kept my opinions to myself. However, I would now like to put my two cents concerning the posts about the weakness of the east, the dominance of Rowan in this region, and that Rowan is the only DIII alterative for Jersey born athletes. As an Ithaca alum, I find it hard to believe that IC’s football program has been overlooked in much of this discussion. The Bombers have one of the more storied programs in the history of DIII football. Some of IC’s resume includes 3 national championships (surpassed only by Augustana and Mount Union); 7 trips to the Stagg Bowl; 27-11 record in 38 playoff games; and the 4th best winning percentage in all off DIII (.643). How can the East region be tagged as weak when 2 of the best programs in the country, Rowan and IC, are from the East?
Also, Keith… if my memory serves me correctly… back in the late 80s, early 90’s IC was a very popular alternative for Jersey born DIII athletes, not only in football, but all sports. It also seems to be a choice these days.. as at least 10 kids on the team this year are from Jersey. Obviously Rowan is the first choice, but there is a solid DIII program in the area that serves as a good choice for Jersey kids.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:23 am
A Family Friend of mine is the Head Coach at Northern Illinios University and I have noticed and influx of WI players on their roster over the past 5 years or so. 18 on the roster for 2005 and 9 of them were on the two-deep roster for the MAC Championship Game.
December 14th, 2005 at 11:45 am
SeanGop
Are you going to the game?
December 14th, 2005 at 12:05 pm
SeanGOP
No matter what happens this saturday. I will still be a Raiders Fan, Not someone who jumps on the coat tails of another program because his beloved team had their butts beat by the team that stole their glory away. Augustana was a great program during their 5 year run of 5 Stagg Bowls in a row, with 4 victories. At the time you were the team all other D3 schools wanted to be like. Now that GLORY belongs to us and it bothers you. Now you don’t hear me talking trash about Augustana, WW or any other team for that matter. We respect every team we play. Always have and always will!
December 14th, 2005 at 12:55 pm
mainjack,
you are absolutely correct … which means if Mount went I-AA in football, it would likely have to go Division I in everything else. Which strengthens my point, so thanks.
December 14th, 2005 at 1:50 pm
Brett Elliot Player of year???, Beaver should have gotten it. In final 5 minutes He had ball twice against UWW and couldn’t get one first down. I mean come one. His team had a chance to upset maybe the best team ever in Div 3 and he can’t throw for a first down and run out the clock. Heck his defense held UWW to 44 points giving his team a chance to win. Have to give it to best player on best team and thats Beaver. He didnt deliver in the clutch. Does the voting factor in playoff performance?
December 14th, 2005 at 1:59 pm
Ikmowitall,
“chance to upset the best team ever”. How would the number 1 ranked team beating the number 2 ranked team be an upset?
December 14th, 2005 at 2:14 pm
iDON’Tknowitall,
You might want to read what the award is about before you keep going on and on about who deserves it…”the premier individual award in Division III football, honoring excellence in athletics, academics and community service” This isn’t an award for just on the field heroics. The recipient is a great person both on and off the field and your sniping at a young man that has shown the character to deserve the award is pathetic at best.
Wiac Watcher, No one is complaining about WW fans arrogance. Just about the above idiots comments and the hipocracy of SeanGOP.
December 14th, 2005 at 2:31 pm
Iknowitall,
It would also be tough for a Soph to win this award. Not impossible, but I think it has always gone to a Senior in the past.
December 14th, 2005 at 2:34 pm
Those rankings are just numbers, teams dont play same teams. How can you rank one over the other sayuing one team is number one and one is number 2. Looking back at it right now it would have been a big upset for how goog whitwater is. Beaver has a 3.8 GPA and works with disadvantaged youths in the community. Plus he is best running back in the country maybe ever in Division 3. His offield perfromance is stronger then his on field. He deserved it.
December 14th, 2005 at 2:36 pm
I agree kiras dad. A sophomore over a senior is highly unlikely, especially when the senior is Brett Elliot.
Beaver does make a case, though, with his great stats, his 3.7 gpa and numerous community service hours/awards in Whitewater. Hopefully he at least ended up second on the voting ballot.
I’m not trying to strike a match with this, either, but I read a quote from Beaver in the paper that I think puts Saturday into perspective.
“We’re playing a team with a lot of tradition, but they can’t put all that tradition on the field,” Beaver said. “It’s our 2005 team against their 2005 team.”
Should be an outstanding matchup! Can’t wait!
December 14th, 2005 at 2:45 pm
I don’t have the official tally for this blog-
but I think the award for “most outrageous trash talk statements” is going to the UWW fans.
This one by Iknowitall takes the cake:
“Plus he is best running back in the country maybe ever in Division 3”
December 14th, 2005 at 2:49 pm
Rigg, a few things.
1.) There are only a few Whitewater fans on here talking like that, not the majority. I’m sure if you look elsewhere, there are fans from all over talking trash.
2.) After Beaver’s senoir season, that comment might not be such a farce…
December 14th, 2005 at 2:57 pm
Iknowitall is only one representative out of many at Whitewater. If you take his comments and use them against Whitewater in a negative light as a whole, than that’s called being shallow.
December 14th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
Well he is gonna break single season rushing record for D3 as a sophomore, that is a good start to being best running back ever in D3 I would think. Putting up 200 plus against MUC vaunted front seven will also help his cause one would think
December 14th, 2005 at 3:03 pm
Iknowitall,
Beaver has had a heck of a season, but he has a ways to go before becoming the best running back ever in D3. Chuck Moore and Dan Pugh have something to say about it.
December 14th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Actually Moore and Pugh don’t have anything to say about it. the only one that can stop Beaver from becoming best Div 3 back ever is himself.
Eric
December 14th, 2005 at 3:22 pm
First of all! The number one back in Div.3 had his carries in just 10 games. The playoff didn’t count until recent years. So do the math. Not taking anything away from this kid. But, state the real facts here. Yeah! More yards an he did it with 4 more games.
December 14th, 2005 at 3:28 pm
First of all….Beaver missed a game, so 3 more. Until he plays Saturday, then that’s 4 more. Just letting you know.
I don’t know this, for I’m not a historical statistician, but whose record is Beaver attempting to break, when did he do it, and how many carries did that person have that season?
Just curious.
Again, the best D3 running back ever is bogus talk right now. But after his senior season people may change their minds. Heck, knowing the kid, he won’t give two kicks about it if he doesn’t get 90 yards on Saturday, as long as his team wins.
December 14th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
MOST YARDS GAINED
Season
2,385—Dante Brown, Marietta, 1996 (314 rushes)
Also holds per-game record with 238.5 (2,385 in 10)
December 14th, 2005 at 3:35 pm
pcole,
I was just loooking for that. So, those stats are from a 10 game season then right?
December 14th, 2005 at 3:37 pm
And watch comparing the Qb’s as well. The higest rated Qb in D3 of all time is Bill Borchert. His 47 tds were also in 10 games and if you add his 15 in the playoffs would make it 62 td’s in one season.
December 14th, 2005 at 3:44 pm
“Best” running back or quarterback can never be determined solely by the numbers….quality of o-line, quality of competition, offensive scheme, etc. are obviously things out of the back’s control which determine how well he does. Beaver gets his yards in part because of the balance that UWW has…the defense cannot overly committ to stopping him or Jacobs will burn them on the pass.
Hey Kirasdad, I am an NIU grad as well as a UWW grad….tell Coach Joe that he will get his MAC championship…the program keeps getting better and better! Great talent coming from Wisconsin to the Huskies!
December 14th, 2005 at 3:50 pm
All good backs will state that they are only as good as the O-Line
December 14th, 2005 at 3:53 pm
Poundtherock,
I couldn’t believe it when Akron scored with 10 seconds left. What the heck is a receiver doing getting behind a DB in the end zone like that? They should have been playing 4 Deep with no one behind them. Was a great throw and catch though.
December 14th, 2005 at 4:01 pm
Kirasdad,
Yes, that Akron game was heartbreaking…luckily this great playoff run by UWW has helped to ease my pain…hopefully another Ohio team will not break my heart again! Truthfully, some of the best football I have seen played this year were at UWW games…Derek Stanley has made a couple of catches that were among the best at any level of college football.
December 14th, 2005 at 4:02 pm
Beaver always hypes up his offensive lineman. He always gives them the credit first, and his fullback Travis Rueland (jr.), who is also a former high school teammate of his at Palmyra-Eagle.
Did the ‘96 Marietta team not have a passing game or a good defense? Or was that when the stats didn’t count for playoffs?
Some teams have a hard time getting 238 yards total in one game, let alone rushing.
December 14th, 2005 at 4:23 pm
I’m usually not this picky, but Iknownothing keeps mentioning the MUC front 7. For the record, they don’t play with a front 7. They play with a front 6. Their base defense is a 4-2-5 with an extra free safety instead of an LB.
The only time I’ve seen them scrap their standard 4-2-5 was against Augie’s double tightend Wing-T when they went to a 5-2-4. In obvious passing/long yardage situtations, they’ll pull a DT and switch to a 3-2-6, or sometimes a 3-3-6 and blitz the extra LB.
I’m all being proud of your team’s accomplishments, but between seanJOB and Iknownothing, I’m begining to really dislike all things Whitewater. At least when St John’s and MUC played, there was a healthy amount of respect between the 2 fan bases. But then again both MUC and STU had been there before and knew how to act. Maybe after Whitewater wins 7 of the next 11 titles, they’ll learn how to act like they’ve been there before!
December 14th, 2005 at 4:27 pm
Kmic ran for 361 yds in his second career start vs. Augustana this year.
Marietta has not been introduced to the concept of the Forward Pass yet.
December 14th, 2005 at 4:58 pm
They will need a front 7 even front 8 or 9 against UWW. If they don’t Beaver will run wild.
December 14th, 2005 at 5:20 pm
Too…many…jokes…
Can’t…get…one..out…
Beaver Runs Wild… he he
December 14th, 2005 at 5:48 pm
And speaking of beaver, I prefer mine to be 5′-8″, 125 lbs. Not 5′-8″, 195 lbs……
December 14th, 2005 at 6:03 pm
Looking forward to Saturday. More than anything, I want MU to give WW a tight game. That will take some of the pain out of the seeding situation. Yep, I’m a still-ticked-off Linfield alum.
Question — what body does the seeding? How many people? Who are they? PCole made a valid point that WW could have been put in the North. Why weren’t they? It almost feels like the seeding situation can be as tainted as the bowl selection system in DI.
Far as I know, D3 only gets one nationally televised game a year. It should match the best 2 teams. Unless MU leads with a minute left, only to lose by 3, I believe the best 2 teams already met.
December 14th, 2005 at 6:34 pm
Mount Union, winner of seven national championships, with only one loss on the season, who beat Augie 40-plus something to seven, whose freshman runningback got 361 yards rushing in that game, is the underdog? Rushing yardage numbers like that remind me of Chuck Moore’s, the MUC back who won the Gagliardi Trophy. I’m kinda thinking that MUC can play some ball. (I’m a die-hard Augie fan, btw).
Also, St. John’s was the “underdog” to MUC in the final a little while back. Remember THAT game???
Yogi Berra said something like, “I don’t like to make predictions, especially about the future.”
Let’s watch the game, people, then we’ll all be in agreement. Good luck to both teams.
December 14th, 2005 at 6:34 pm
Hey let me say this. I am a Linfield fan and alumni. I was at the WW/Linfield game a couple of weeks ago. What an amazing game. Could have gone either way. One of the most impressive things was the fans for WW. They were first class for the entire game. I can say that some of the people on this site, namely llnowitall, are not like the fans that I met. Overall, they were very nice and respectful.
As for the best two teams meeting in the Championship? I will only say that they are. Both these teams have won all their playoff games and are now playing in the Stagg Bowl. Everything else is just speculation. A couple of weeks ago only a hand full of people thought WW would beat Linfield. They did. So, you never know until you play the game.
Anyway, good luck to both teams and I look forward to watching the game on TV this Saturday.
December 14th, 2005 at 7:03 pm
As a past player, I think coach K will have the team ready to play.
December 14th, 2005 at 7:04 pm
If you’re going to say “let’s watch the game, then we’ll all be in agreement,” don’t question who the underdog is. Personally, there is no line, so there is no underdog. Using the term underdog is just a cop-out.
And again, if you take a couple of Whitewater fans comments to a disliking, dislike that person, not the school/fans in general. I don’t think they hired SeanGOP and Iknowitall to be their PR representative.
BTW, there are way to many sexual inuendoes you can use with Beaver’s name. It’s hard trying to think of a poster that’s clean so it can go on ESPN!! Grrr.
December 14th, 2005 at 8:15 pm
I’m be on the MUC sideline with a sign that reads…..
“Let’s tackle some Beaver!!” hehe
December 14th, 2005 at 8:24 pm
I’ve been reading through all of these posts as of late and it’s just disgusting to me that people like Iknowitall and SeanGOP are the people on this board representing WW. Being at WW I can tell you that there is only a small group of people that are acting this arrogant about this game.
Most conversations I’ve had this week have revolved around MUC’s experience in big games and WW’s lack of such. I never would’ve posted on here but it seems like MUC’s fans are all rather level-headed about talking about the game while the WW contingent cries about a Sophomore not winning an award that should go to a Senior.
Overall, as most sane people have said on this board, Saturday has the potential to be a great game. Looking at the tail of the tape that someone put up earlier makes me think, and I don’t like saying this, that MUC has a bit of an advantage. Either way, my apologies to the MUC fans for having to deal with the few idiots from WW that are posting on this board. The majority of us are just ecstatic that WW has gotten this far!
December 14th, 2005 at 8:37 pm
Lilpeds after reading many of your comments they do not fall all that far from the iknowitall tree. Which by the way is a tree with roots of stupidity and apples of ridiculous comments (many of which are insulting to student atheletes). I am clearly now a MUC fan for Saturday! Next time when you try hard to seperate yourself from a fool, you actually need to do so by saying different things then the fool. “Using the term underdog is just a cop out.” Your reasoning for this is because there is no line? Please look in the mirror and stop trying to protect yourself from feeling stupid if MUC wins. I also think that you have more than a century of sports writers and players to argue with if you feel the term underdog is really a cop out. There is always a underdog, always. you just sound scared of it this time.
December 14th, 2005 at 8:38 pm
Amen normal WWW fan!
December 14th, 2005 at 9:16 pm
Hopefully you give me a chance to defend myself.
1) The cop-out statement wasn’t suppose to be threatening.
2) I realize there is always an underdog.
3) As I said before, it seems like some MUC fans are overpursuing the statement that they are the underdog.
4)It’s a cop-out because if they win, that means they beat Whitewater – who they weren’t expected to – giving them the ultimate right to degrade Whitewater if they so desire. If they lose, they were supposed to anyway. So either way, in essence, they win.
5) I sound nothing like Iknowitall and SeanGOP. In fact, far from it. As they think it will be a blow out, all along I said the two best teams in the country are playing on Saturday and it should be a good one.
And normal UWW fan, I’m with you (i.e. number five on my list).
December 14th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
O.K. lilpeds makes sense, all but #4…So Mount Union wins even if they lose? You sound very knowledgeable but that entire number 4 is a crazy statement. Absolutly crazy! You are still looking for a way out. WW is the favorite here. Give your team some credit, believe in them, believe that they can handle being the favorite. Just because you can’t, don’t give the perception that they cannot. It is a compliment to be called the favorite, UWW deserves it because they earned it. I bet those kids would be pissed if they knew you were selling them short. MUC is the underdog here and they do not need to make any excuses or cop outs. I believe they have earned that.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:50 pm
mikeb525
To bad Beaver isn’t from around here in S.E. PA. There was a college that was named Beaver college until a few years ago. Originally an all girls school it became co-ed. And the political correctness got the better of them all and is now known as Arcadia. You could change hi9s name to Arcadia and here’s your banner.
Acradia will school Mount Union!!!
December 14th, 2005 at 9:59 pm
Obviously I’m proud of UWW, and I wouldn’t doubt if we were the favorite. And I’m sorry, but I’m not selling them short whatsoever. For the last time, the two best teams in the country are playing on Saturday.
How’s that selling them short?
I never said they’re going to lose. I never said they’re going to fold.
Mount Union doesn’t necessarily “win if they lose.” Sorry, that was kind of came out wrong. If they lose, they have a padding to fall on – that of Whitewtaer was supposed to win anyway.
Again, it’ll be a good one.
Beaver College. Nice.
December 15th, 2005 at 9:37 am
Too bad Beaver didn’t go to “Big Beaver Falls Area High School”:
http://www.tigerweb.k12.pa.us/
December 15th, 2005 at 9:40 am
Or Beaver Area High School:
http://www.highschoolsports.net/default3.cfm?scm=1<c=1&otc=1&ptc=1&school=PA150093334
December 15th, 2005 at 10:16 am
lilpeds … I think what dlip is trying to say is that you trying to remove Mt. from the underdog role is as big of a cop out as you claim calling them the underdog to be. Accordingly if Mt. isn’t the underdog and WW loses then they aren’t seen to have been beaten by a lesser team, or if they win then they didn’t beat an underdog so by your previous logic it is a win either way for WW. Basically it’s not a cop out to call Mt. an underdog and it’s not a cop out if you don’t want to see them as such because either view could be seen as correct. And basically either outcome of the game doesn’t lessen the great season both teams have had.
By the way Mount the Beaver seemed like a good slogan until you realize Beaver’s a guy and then it get’s kinda gross.
December 15th, 2005 at 10:36 am
You should contact BW and JCU students. They always seem to have clever “Mount” slogans on their T-shirts and banners when they play the Raiders.
December 15th, 2005 at 10:45 am
I’m not trying to throw the label of underdog out the window whatsoever. And it’s not some ploy, either. And I don’t think that’s what dlip was trying to say.
Besides, if you look at the experts predictions, 4 of 7 predict a MUC win. This simply solidifies the fact that MUC isn’t as big of an underdog as people are making them out to be. That’s what I’ve been trying to put out there. People automatically assume UW-W is some big, huge favorite in this game. That’s not the case. That’s all. Heck, personally, I think it’s a push.
December 15th, 2005 at 10:50 am
Everyone,
I love it how now I am some kind of arrogant fool. If you jokers had a memory, you would remember all of the crap UWW fans got for predicting the path they have blazed through the playoffs – and we had to fight back.
And now that it is clear that UWW is going to win it all, everyone is talking about how good they are and the hothead / blabbermouths have shut their cake holes.
If you think I am arrogant – fine. And as for UWW fans who think I’m evil too – where were you when I was sticking up for your team, when all of the Mt. Onion fans, Linfield fans, St. Johns fans and Wesley fans were busting our chops for picking a winner?
UWW is gong to destroy Mt. Onion, and there is nothing anyone can do about it – so DIG IT.
And another thing, the two best teams are not playing for the National Championship – anyone who says that is just trying to kiss Mt. Onion booty. UWW and Linfield played for the Championship weeks ago!
December 15th, 2005 at 10:54 am
Good article on Beaver out of the Roanoke Times. The kids a gamer. Says the right things and always respects their teams’ opponents.
http://www.roanoke.com/sports/college/wb/44558
December 15th, 2005 at 10:55 am
Good story. Lame headline.
December 15th, 2005 at 10:57 am
By the way (I don’t want to monopolize the Daily Dose board, either), SeanGOP, I’m a UW-W through and through. I’ve went to school there longer than you have and am good friends with a lot of the players. Don’t assume we (UWW fans) aren’t sticking up for our team. We are proud of them and what they’ve done. It’s your arrogance that misrepresents the UWW team and the university as a whole. We don’t need to come on an Internet Board and brag or boast. I think “Mt. Onion” has more of a right to do that than us.
December 15th, 2005 at 11:34 am
SeanGOP
It’s about time you showed up. You can’t give the Mt. Union any respect can you? Show up at the game. I’ll have my RV marked ( Looking for SeanGOP) Come on over and have a beverage. Let us prove we are a class act. You won’t hear me or any of my group being dis-respectful to anyone. So Grow up be a MAN and stop your childish games. Respect is earned, not given. If WW does win saturday, then they earned it and will simply say great game and look to next year. It’s a freakin College football game between two teams that earned their way there by beating every team in front of them. Give both teams and Fans some respect. If you don’t care for BigMucfan, then hate him not the rest of us.
December 15th, 2005 at 11:39 am
SeanGOP- Why all of the hostility? It is only football.
December 15th, 2005 at 1:38 pm
SeanGOP – I want to know WHY it is “so clear that UW-W is going to win”. They don’t play the game on paper or on speculation. The only thing that is clear is that this will be a tight, even contest.
Oh, and perhaps you’d gain a bit more credibility by stopping the Mt. Onion remarks. I think they deserve a bit more respect than that, regardless of how you may personally feel. In continuing that practice, you show your ignorance.
One thing for sure, if UW-W DOES win, you can expect Mt. Union fans to be here congratulating their opponent. I wonder if you will do the same….
December 15th, 2005 at 1:52 pm
Hmm … so you are PRE-taunting a team for its presumed lack of class? Give me a break.
Good enough reason to close this topic. It obviously has run its course.
December 1st, 2006 at 10:44 am
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