Immediate thoughts on Week 16
Dec
2005
Congrats to Mount Union. Nice to have a different champion for once. 
But seriously, I don’t mind if the same team wins a couple titles in a row, as long as the season is competitive and the title isn’t a forgone conclusion.
We’ve had years like that.
First thought goes out to the johnny-come-lately Whitewater posters on this blog. Welcome to Division III reality. It takes more than one hand to count the number of schools’ posters who have come in, talked a big game, then had to either slink away or eat crow. But don’t worry, there’s a long list: Wheaton, Wabash, Widener, Rowan, St. John’s (though that one goes both ways).
Second to those who insisted the national title game was played two weeks ago. ‘Nuff said. Don’t count your chickens before the eggs are laid. This is exactly why covering Division III and ranking teams is so difficult.
Third: Can you imagine this team with two more years of Pierre Garcon and three more of Nate Kmic? In our pregame interview I asked coach Larry Kehres if we were seeing the emergence of the next Chuck Moore or Dan Pugh and he pointed out, of course, that those guys did it for four years. In retrospect, however, I think we’ll be able to look back in a couple years and agree about the breakout.
Fourth: Still thinking about the chicken, Stone Station! Yum!
Also, I enjoyed covering sideline reports for the broadcast today (archive links on the front for those who want to listen in). Good perspective on the game. Thanks to Matt Barnhart of Bridgewaterfootball.com for covering the opposite sideline for me so we could get the latest on both sides.
Good to see the NCAA’s chief executive, Dr. Myles Brand, watching the game from the sidelines. We were able to interview him early in the third quarter for those who want to check it out.
As always, play in the Stagg Bowl would have changed our All-American team. But like everyone else, we lock them in and release them beforehand.
Our broadcasters upstairs correctly noted the downfield blocking by the offensive line on Kmic’s 15-yard touchdown run But I feel I should point out that Garcon was down there as well paving the way.
It was great to see officiating not be an issue. The officials clearly got the three calls right that resulted in the game being stopped for review. But it was fun from the field to see the video board and how the replays shown affected the fans, especially on the non-touchdown catch by Garcon — the play was called out of bounds. First replay comes up and is not particularly conclusive to the layman, Mount Union fans roar. Play is stopped. I call upstairs to Gordon Mann, our producer, and let him know it is absolutely out of bounds. Second replay comes up and shows us nothing new. Finally, the definitive replay shows Garcon indeed got his foot down out of bounds and the Whitewater side roars. I enjoyed the element added to the game and hope fans did too.
Now, on to the Aztec Bowl. Thanks to Wes Hostetler for making us look good with his performance as both a defensive back and a return man, echoing our naming him an All-American at both spots earlier in the day. Elsewhere, lots of good performances came from our picks … just not from the quarterbacks. Ouch.
We throw it open, but don’t forget to come back for more coverage this week and in future weeks as we continue to wrap up the Stagg Bowl and the 2005 Division III football season with Keith McMillan’s year in review column.
December 18th, 2005 at 5:30 am
Mount has an excellent freshman class this year. To mention a couple in addition to Kmic, they have a tailback from FL who was 2nd on the depth chart until game 9–about same size as Beaver. The punter is the 3rd string QB–an all-state lefty who throws the football like Freddy Couples swings a golf club and he is a very good runner. They take a big hit to graduation on the DL but there are some Sophs ready for their turn and they have a truckload of DBs and LBs to fill any any holes there.
Looking forward to next year more so than usual.
Agree that the replay was an excellent call by the NCAA. It should alleviate the whining and complaining from all but the worst about any suspect calls.
December 18th, 2005 at 8:29 am
thought the broadcast was excellent…the NFL should get replays done that quickly…loved the way Kehres was on his players about proper conduct…(worked for the most part)…PLAY THE GAME ON FIELDTURF…(or go further south)
December 18th, 2005 at 8:45 am
is it too early to talk repeat???
Congratulations MT. UNION PURPLE RAIDERS!!!
Blah….Blah… National Championship two weeks ago…. Remember people, you have to play the game…. And when it is all said and done it was the MT. UNION PURPLE RAIDERS as the champions…
Next time WW people should be more respectful… Way too much trash talking at the tailgate… I got trashtalk mugged in the line for the port-o-potty…. just walking around…. in line to get into stadium… And you should talk to your student body about the “F-U” “M-U” chants… very disrespectful as a football fan.
But I guess that is how things go…. It just seemed that WW people were just way too cocky…. I did see one of the people after the game and respectfully wished him a safe 14 hr drive home…
CONGRATULATIONS MOUNT UNION PURPLE RAIDERS!!!!
#8 IS JUST AS GREAT!!!!
December 18th, 2005 at 9:22 am
Thanks for letting me help out Pat. It was a lot of fun, even though I almost ate it twice in that mud.
Couple immediate thoughts from being on the MUC sideline…
I liked how Larry Kehres allowed his younger coaches to most of the coaching. Not sure if he has done that since he started coaching, or it began over the last couple years, but it shows Kehres sees value in mentoring his former players to they can one day work the sidelines as HC.
I also thought Nate Kmic was a class act by thanking each of his offensive lineman by tapping them on the head and saying “thanks for blocking” after each of his three touchdowns. I know he isn’t the only back that does that, but I could tell he meant it. Kmic doesn’t seem like the kind of person who, over the next three years, will soke in the success as all his doing when comes to him.
Pierre Garcon - when you see him in person - looks like a Division I-A athlete. His arms and legs were huge, neither of which slowed him down or kept him from making playstation-type moves in getting YAC. Garcon has a bright future … beyond MUC.
And lastly, Mount Union’s defense. I mean wow. I couldn’t find a weakness, and clearly UW-Whitewater’s offense couldn’t either. Holding the Warhawks to zero points in the second and third quarters won the game. And I remember the defensive coordinator telling his troops once they came off the field in the second quarter, “If they don’t score, they can’t win.”
Again, I had an excellent time and appreciated the invite by the D3football.com staff to man the sidelines for them.
And boy was “Stone Station” hopping, with the 75 bbq chicken quarters being eaten in about 15 minutes by the Whitewater fans - and a handful of Mount Union ones. Big thanks for Bo (a.k.a. Llamaguy) and John (a.k.a. Skoaltrain) for putting on the whole tailgate. And no joke, “Stone Station” actually won the 94.9 Star Country NTelos “Tailgate of the Day.” Clearly deserved, yes, but just ironic seeing how there were 10 or so BC fans there and 4000+ Mount Union and Whitewater ones.
December 18th, 2005 at 9:29 am
Oh my……so much for the unbeatable machine, huh? And whats with the 65-7 whitewater whitewashing that was supposed to occur? This should be a lesson as to why the games are played! Don’t underestimated the OAC, dont undersestimate Ohio football in general……some of the best in the country! I believe this victory started in the parking lot…..First, we won the tailgating aspect and then we won yet another national championship……Nice work Raiders players and fans in maintaining your composure with all the trash talking going on….It was bad! UWW had a whole lot to say the entire game….right up to about the last minute or so that is!!! But seriously, I hope that UWW takes a little more humble approach in the future, and I wish them the best of luck next year, cuz we may just see this match-up all over again!!!! That’d be just fine with me….I’ll be there!
December 18th, 2005 at 10:03 am
I ran into Bob Reade at an Augie game against UW Platteville, I think it was. Said to him, “looks like it’s Linfield now.” He said something to the effect that Mt. Union would be back, with their great program. What does one notice about the greatest teams in just about any sport? Less talking, more DOING. Augie in the 80’s, Mount Union in the 90’s and beyond. Quiet, well disciplined teams.
December 18th, 2005 at 10:06 am
Did anyone get the final attendance of the 2005 Stagg Bowl?? I seemed pretty full, but hard to put a count to it. Usually it is announced at the game, but I didn’t notice it.
December 18th, 2005 at 10:09 am
First of all, congratulations to the Raiders on a great victory and season.
As a Warhawk fan, the loss was disappointing but the season has been a huge success for a team picked to finish second in its own conference. The team graduates only five seniors I believe so the future looks promising. The experience gained by playing five games against top competition in the postseason is invaluable, as is the media exposure which should help immensely in recruiting. Hopefully this season has gotten the ball rolling on Whitewater’s goal to be seen by recruits as a respected perennial power like Mt. Union.
I can’t wait for next season!
December 18th, 2005 at 11:27 am
Pat,
Your point about crow-eating posters is well made. Regardless of the outcome, those who post the kind of braggadocio we’ve all read are engaging in testosterone-fueled chest thumping and trash talk, none of which is sportsmanlike when accompanied by derisive and uncomplimentary statements about the opposition. While it may be relatively harmless in this forum, it more than likely is their choice of communication styles utilized at games
You mentioned several schools whose supporters have done such in the past. Not to suggest that Wabash supporters are above it (I’ve personally witnessed and read about such incidents at games), but I don’t recall seeing any blogs of the extreme kind we saw during this post-season. Were you referring to past playoff seasons or games during this year’s regular season (e.g., the Monon Bell game)? This is my first year to participate in Daily Dose, so I may have missed some of the postings to which you refer. Just wondering.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:45 am
Pat,
Didn’t you say in your blog entry on the 10th of Dec:
“It’s hard to keep from pondering that if the NCAA had put UW-Whitewater in the North and Lakeland in the West (remember, Whitewater is closer geographically to the rest of the North bracket than Lakeland is!) then we could have seen UW-Whitewater/Mount Union today and UW-Whitewater/Linfield next week.”
Maybe you were also one of “those” who stated that the championship game was played at Linfield?
Regardless, Mount got the job done and put doubters (like myself) to rest for another season. While there were some outstanding offensive performances for Mount the MVP of that game was the D-Line and LB’s of Mount Union. They made Jacobs uncomfortable, took away their sprint out passing game, and just made it a long day for him.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:48 am
Salem has to update the field or they should move the final. If they would have had any additional moisture on Saturday, it would have been unplayable.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:56 am
Well what a great game! Congrats to Mt. Union and their entire program. What they continue to accomplish is amazing! Also congrats to all the WW players as well, this is all about the kids and all their hard work! They all deserved to be apart of this experience! UWW fans (many of you but not all) I really think you got what you deserved, a loss to shut you up!! When looking at the players it is a shame anyone had to lose but it is clear that when looking at the fans, I am so happy to see that Mt. Union came out on top. One that thing…….Dear iknowitall…….you don’t know %#$*!
December 18th, 2005 at 12:11 pm
Salem does so many things right, but I agree with the field assessment. It looks as though Salem Stadium has started to renovate - they added an elevator this year.
The 1-AA championship in 2004 was basically on an unplayable field. This year, fieldturf was installed. I’d have to think that Salem will strongly consider it after the condition in 2005…it was playable, and didn’t cause any major issues in the game, but it was a drawback. Knowing Salem, I expect a change to be made.
December 18th, 2005 at 12:28 pm
Regarding FieldTurf — I think that is a foregone conclusion in Salem. The city has been upgrading the stadium slowly but surely over the past few years and I am sure turf is coming. First started talking about that a couple years ago.
Attendance: 4,619.
December 18th, 2005 at 12:31 pm
Unfortunately we could not make the trip to Salem this year - prior commitments. The game was terrific on tv though and it was nice to see ESPN send one of their better broadcast teams - Bill Curry does a nice job of pointing out some of the more subtle aspects of the game. I was saddened to hear however, that there seemed to have been too much trash talk and poor sportsmanship involved. I have pretty much given up on the pro’s because of this and while still a big Buckeye fan, I’m close to shutting out the big-time college game too. I get to Alliance for 3 or 4 games each season because I really enjoy seeing young men playing the game the right way, simply because of their love for the game. The wholesome atmosphere and good cheer on both sides make for a wonderful day watching excellent football. It seems a shame some among yesterday’s crowd denied the rest that enjoyment. Congratulations to Coach Kehres and his coaches/players on another championship year.
December 18th, 2005 at 12:45 pm
Congrats to two teams who deserved to be there and played their hearts out. When all was said and done, I have to believe that it was the experience factor which propelled MUC over Whitewater.
I was sitting in my hotel room Saturday morning, I read an article in which one of the WW players was asked about the experience so far. He said something to the affect of ‘I think that it’s finally set in that we are playing for a national championship’ At that point, I knew that Whitewater would lose this one.
Did anyone else notice a point in the second quarter where it seemed as if the adreniline wore off, leaving the Warhawks tired? It was at that point where MUC started to control the game at all levels. Whitewater regained their energy in the 4th quarter, but by then it was a bit late. The defense had spent too much time on the field, allowing Kmic to spring his 95 yard run.
I also don’t know why we didn’t attempt field goals in the redzones rather than going for it on 4th down. But, that’s a coaching issue.
I also saw plenty of times when the QB had a receiver wide open 5-7 yards down the field, but he opted to toss to Lyczinski 20 to 25 yards down. But, that’s a players issue.
A fan issue is something I know a thing or two about. First off, please don’t accuse WW fans of being crass and rude in one breath and then tell a blogger that they “don’t know %#$*!”. You can’t have it both ways.
I will say, however, that Wisconsin fans are not the most polite in the world. It’s usually accompanied by heavy drinking and is in general, an embarrassment to the state. As a former Wisconsinite, I can say that when the Badgers came to NC for a game this fall, some of my friends also remarked about the same issues regarding the trash talking by the Badger fans against the Tarheel’s fans. Let’s not pretend that MUC is completely innocent, though, either. Wisconsin is just a little over the top.
One thing I can say for sure is that if MUC comes back to the Stagg Bowl, their band should wear uniforms. They were clearly outclassed.
December 18th, 2005 at 12:56 pm
Maybe this is just me, but I love natural grass. I was at the game I don’t think it was unplayable. Unplayable would have been a mud hole, and it was far from that. I beleieve that torn-up grassy sod is what pure, that way it was supposed to be played football is all about….and congrats Raiders once again!
December 18th, 2005 at 1:45 pm
what a game. rematch next year is def a possiblility with the young talent each has
however, after watching the muc-capital game 2 weeks before it is hard for me to not say that the championship was won 2 weeks ago on a cold afternoon in alliance. gotta give the oac some love
December 18th, 2005 at 2:02 pm
“It takes more than one hand to count the number of schools’ posters who have come in, talked a big game, then had to either slink away or eat crow. But don’t worry, there’s a long list: Wheaton, Wabash, Widener, Rowan, St. John’s (though that one goes both ways).”
pat, if it takes more than one hand how come you only listed 5? and i cannot begin to believe the five you have listed are even close to the worst offenders. maybe it was a W theme but this blanket assessment seems far from accurate, especially for you.
December 18th, 2005 at 2:33 pm
I agree with those who think MUC had the coaching edge in this one, I think it was definately a factor in the game. MUC seemed to be mixing their plays up nicely, and UWW didn’t seem to loosen things up until they were down by 3 TDs. Also, how much “what-if-ing” is UWW going to do this off season? I can think of 4 major ones. A dropped TD at the goal line (and how big does that look when you lose by 1 score). No points with 4 tries within the 10 yard line (field goal, anyone?). A WR behind the coverage in the endzone and the QB throws it a foot too short and into the arms of the DB. And then, someone (one of the D-lineman) deciding to try and arm tackle Kmic at the line of scrimmage. Rather than no gain it turns into a 96 yard TD.
MUC made the big plays in the above situations, as well as other points in the game. That’s why the Purple Raiders have been the champs 8 of the last 13 years.
December 18th, 2005 at 2:46 pm
I have personally observed all of those schools’ fans (and players and parents, perhaps that will jog your memory as to the school I know you are trying to dispute).
Want more names? We could get them for you.
December 18th, 2005 at 2:56 pm
oh yes, the parents thing is what made me remember. well, that was what? 4 yrs ago? i agree, that was pretty bad. but that was one bad poster, not a whole school. certaiinly there are more widespread examples than that. if i was making a list i would put only 1 or two of the 5 schools you mentioned in the list.
December 18th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
… and a player.
December 18th, 2005 at 3:54 pm
Pat,
So I’m still wondering about the bloggers from Wabash. Again, I’m not familiar with any examples from this year, my first on the Daily Dose.
December 18th, 2005 at 4:03 pm
And since Wabash didn’t play Mount Union this year, that should be some indication that I’m talking about a previous season.
December 18th, 2005 at 4:13 pm
Got it. Thanks for the clarification. I wasn’t aware you were talking only about Mt. Union opponents, given there were a number of bloggers from various playoff teams this year who fit the description of big talk and no results.
Wow, if any of our fans popped off about MUC in 2002, they don’t know diddly.
December 18th, 2005 at 6:27 pm
You know you can complain about fans all you want and how little class they have. but a team you left off of their was Mt. Union. Your right alot of Whitewater fans (i.e. alot of students) don’t show alot of class at games. but nobody claimed we did. In talking to people who have seen Mt. Union play they told me that Mt. Union fans were some of the classyist fans around. I didn’t see it. I saw alot of Mt. Union fans rubbing their win in our faces. I would understand to rub it in the faces of those people who trash talked. but not everybody. now I can’t say people in whitewater wouldn’t have done the same but I can say that I am disappointed and have not problem saying that Mt. Union fans were the worst fans that we have come across this year. Congrats to both teams. Im looking forward to Dec. 16 2006 when they meet again.
December 18th, 2005 at 6:38 pm
For the record, I was talking merely about people posting to this site, whether on the message board or the blog. Game day behavior is a different thing entirely and needs to be dealt with by the proper authorities. We blogged about this a couple weeks ago and the point remains. Every crowd has its bad apples, but that doesn’t mean it needs to be tolerated.
December 18th, 2005 at 6:39 pm
My son just finished his football career at Mount Union. He played his last game after 14 years of organized football. This is the definition of bittersweet. Through the grace of God and many hour of hard work, he goes out a winner.
I want to thank D3football.com for the many different aspects of D3football that you don’t see by just following “your team”. This site offers so many insights it is amazing.
I want to thank Ric for the information on the purple raiders.Great site, lots of work, great dedication.
I want to thank LK and the whole coaching staff at Mount Union. Sorry fellas, no matter what you hear, they care. Academics are first at Mount. NCAC, toot your horn and pound your chest. Do what ever you want These kids work hard in the classroom. They are students first. LK demands this.
All teams have their less than desirable fans. But Whitewater fans took the cake. I am sure most are good people who love to see their kids excel. But the profanities I heard from the fans directed at Mount fans and players were way above anything I heard except for Cleveland stadium. I am sorry about that.
Someone else noted that man for man Whitewater was the better team. But the sum of the parts!!!!
Thanks for the input from all the fans, it has been a great year,a great ride.
Most of all, Thank you son. I pray that some day you can get half the joy from your children that you have given your mother and I. You are the poster child for D3. Too small to play. Too tough not to.
God bless all. Have a safe and Happy Holiday.
OK SOAP BOX OFFICIALLY CLOSED
December 18th, 2005 at 9:18 pm
daraiders,
God bless you and your family. What a wonderful tribute to your son. I couldn’t help but think of the movie Rudy when I read your description of him.
The academic expectations Coach K has for his student-athletes is indeed shared among most DIII programs, and my prayer is that the emphasis on academics continues.
December 18th, 2005 at 9:38 pm
pat, it is definately worth noting that trash talk posting is not limited to 5-6 or even 10 schools. and muc posters have their share as well.
December 18th, 2005 at 10:26 pm
A reminder that the topic is trash-talking of one specific type against one specific school, Mount Union College. You might not like that some fans put your school on the list but it is definitely accurate.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:20 pm
PCole,
I disagree. Trash talking is just that…talking trash. Just because some team wins doesn’t mean that they are exempt from the label of “talking trash”. Bragging rights is one thing and MUC has definately earned it, but trash talking is completely different.
Furthermore, I think that your calling out of various schools and their posters on d3football.com is in rather poor taste. I’m not even saying that as a WW fan. Had I been a Rowan, St. Johns, Wabash etc. fan, I’d be pretty upset right now. You’re basically telling the fans of those schools that they shouldn’t even support their own team, since afterall…MUC is just going to win it all, right? If UWW would have won, would you have told the MUC posters to eat crow or refer to them as people who slink away? Doubtful.
UWW still has earned national championships in Baseball, Women’s Volleyball and Wheelchair Basketball. Schools around the nation can stake similar claims in other sports. There’s a lot of pride in their schools and rightfully so. For you to tell them that they should eat crow and slink away for defending their men and women is unreasonable and an unfair judgement of the students in these schools.
December 18th, 2005 at 11:30 pm
A few things about the game on Saturday,
1. I was in the student section, and the profanities, were taken care of, and we stopped. As far as individual profanities, I don’t know what happened, so on behalf of UWW, I apologize. But don’t think it was just us doin bad things at the game.
2. As far as the playing surface, I talked to a few players and they said that, in a word, it was bad. I realize that there was a big ice storm on wed, night, so considering, it seemed like they did a pretty darn good job, hats off to the field guys.
I look forward to a rematch next year, and another nice 14 hour drive down there.
Congrats to MUC on a fine season, but also great job hawks on the best season in school history!
December 18th, 2005 at 11:39 pm
Never asked them to slink away, just reported what previous groups of johnny-come-lately fans have done. But they should take their medicine, definitely. If that involves eating crow, hey, I can’t argue with that. Into every life a little crow must fall, even at Mount Union.
But not this year. Welcome, as I said, to Division III reality.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:38 am
Nate Kmic’s run on Chris Berman’s Top 23.5 plays on Sports Center. Bonus points to Berman for pronouncing Berezowitz right. Deduction for pronouncing Kmic’s name wrong.
December 19th, 2005 at 1:23 am
“You might not like that some fans put your school on the list but it is definitely accurate. ”
i wasn’t aware that was a fan poll. looks like just one person’s opinion to me.
December 19th, 2005 at 3:10 am
Sigh.
THE ACTIONS of some fans put your school on the list. Must you argue every point?
December 19th, 2005 at 7:40 am
Good grief! So much “to do” on this issue. Trash talking exist at every college in the US. I’m going to really go out on a limb here and say that at every one of these schools the trash talking has crossed the line of good taste at one point or other. The problem is that every generation feels like they have to outdo the previous on the “outrageous scale”. Remember when the Beatles were every parents nightmare. Now, PM has to do half times shows because some in the current generation can’t be trusted to not bare their breast or drop an F bomb on prime time TV. Throw in a little booze and away we go.
As for Saturday, I made the rounds in the parking lot and saw mostly people having a good time responsibly. I only heard two incidents of vulgarity/trash talk all day and both came from 20 somethings that probably had a BAC higher than the antifreeze level in my truck. Yea, lets blame it on those dastardly kids! And BTW, they both were dressed in purple. Perhaps someone else saw them too.
I am in no way making light of this issue as I try to inject a little humor. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with cheering for your team or maybe even a little harmless ribbing of an opposing school. Problem is, once you open that door it is mightly easy to slide down the slippery slope. Vulgarity and personal attacks have no place in college (or any other level for that matter) athletics. Most people know when they have crossed that line. And remember that little verse that most people learn when they are 5 years old. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
December 19th, 2005 at 8:15 am
So perhaps we don’t always talk about the hundreds and thousands of good, courteous people. My best moment of the weekend took place in a Bob Evans in Princeton WV on Saturday night. Totally unsolicted, my eight year old son went up to an older man in booth wearing a Whitewater hat, stuck out his hand, shook hands and said, “I’m sorry your team lost.” I’ve done one thing right in this life.
December 19th, 2005 at 8:34 am
What a wonderful anecdote….Its nice to see that good sportsmanship still exists! On the other hand, this is once again turning into a spam site….Let’s talk football!
December 19th, 2005 at 8:54 am
Congrats to my Raiders for doing it again, you make us alums proud. Congrats to WW for playing a great game and I might even say at times they looked to be the better team but couldn’t break the big play as often as Mt. did.
Where’s IknowNOTHING and SeanFULLOCRAP now…no where I guess but did we expect anything more from them?
D3 guys thanks as always for your continued coverage of our little part of the football world. If it wasn’t for this sight it would be real hard to stay connected.
December 19th, 2005 at 9:04 am
Come on people! Iknowitall admitted he was wrong and manned up to it. It’s time to leave him alone and enjoy the win. SeanGOP isn’t going to do the same. He wasn’t even a fan of W-Whitewater. Both teams were awsome and both schools should be very proud of their programs.
Thanks for a great game boy’s!
December 19th, 2005 at 9:46 am
When did Iknowitall admit he was wrong? Besides, he was laying it on thick last week…..I havent seen 1 single blog from him this week; good or bad? Not that I care, I just find it amusing……I do agree that everyone involved with Saturday’s game should be very proud of their teams….Talking with people who know very little about either team or DIII football, they keep commenting to me how exciting that game was and how much they enjoyed watching the Stagg Bowl…..Got some newly acquired Mount Union fans!!!!!The word is out-DIII football is the real deal!!!!! Way to go d3football.com and Salem, VA!
December 19th, 2005 at 9:56 am
Check out the Immediate thoughts of the game. He admitted he was wrong about the outcome and gave The Raiders the credit they deserved.
December 19th, 2005 at 11:08 am
Holy man. Maybe these blogs should just go away. That’ll solve a bunch of problems.
Just wanted to point something out about Kmic. I thought he was a great back. Besides the 95 yard run, he was held in check. I thought his hands hurt WW more than his feet (again, other than the 95 yarder). He came up with a few key first down catches out of the backfield, keeping their drives alive. He is going to be good.
As a WW fan, though, I’d still take Beaver any day of the week.
December 19th, 2005 at 11:34 am
Congrats to both teams.
I was impressed with the MUC coach and how he handled his team.
In response to one of the “crazy” blog comments last week referring to “UWW division 1 athletes”:
In my opinion, I saw 1 on the UWW team- a linebacker, I think he was #47.
On the MUC side- I saw 3- obviously the wr, and 2 of the d-linemen.
December 19th, 2005 at 11:58 am
I agree with the 3 D1 athletes for MUC, but you have to be kidding for UW. Only 1?
Don’t try to downgrade any of the players’ talent, give them the credit they deserve.
December 19th, 2005 at 12:22 pm
seventies- thanks for sharing that. that is certainly the spirit of the game!
December 19th, 2005 at 12:57 pm
I want to take a minute to compliment Mount Union DB coach Jeff Wojtowicz for getting the job done against UWW….His secondary could have arguably been the difference maker in the game….They stepped up when they needed to, and kept the UWW WR’s to a relatively quiet game…Not only that, but he’s a quality human being, and a class act….Great job Coach Woj!!!!!
December 19th, 2005 at 1:03 pm
Actually UWW has a few D1 athletes, 75 was offered a spot in Oregon, Satnley was asked to transfer to Madison, and of course 47 who transfered from Madison. Not to mention Jacobs, who until he got hurt his senior year was a lock to play D1.
December 19th, 2005 at 1:07 pm
lilpeds-
no i’m not kidding. i just gave my opinion- nothing more.
December 19th, 2005 at 1:09 pm
Fair enough. I just didn’t know that one game tells the whole story… Great athletes on both sides. Great game to watch!
December 19th, 2005 at 1:17 pm
and, if i may, in my opinion, let’s be glad you aren’t a recruiter.
December 19th, 2005 at 1:23 pm
I have no problem with D1 quality talent playing at D3 schools. Lilpeds is right.
D3 is an attitude, a concept. It is what many of us consider to be the highest form of amateur athletics in the US. These student-athletes have no delusions of their talent at this stage of their lives. They are not announcing early for the NFL/NBA/NHL drafts. (It is a statistical aberration, and probably a sociological tragedy, for those who do!)
These D1 calibre athletes see that their education is most important. They understand that D3 honors the “student” in student-athlete.
As for a Brett Elliott, I understand that he will finish his degree, has worked on some off-season skills and did not take the beating that his body would have sustained running the scout team offenses at Utah. That may be a slight exaggeration, but he has honored the concepts of D3 and of the Gagliardi Trophy. If he has a successful career in the NFL, then outstanding! He is the sentimental favorite of all of D3, maybe even some Willamette fans!
We are seeing a paradigm shift in D3 athletics. The shoestring budgets of D3 universities and and the loyalty of their fans can achieve a critical mass in the world of the Internet. As the entertainment/news market has fragmented, we D3 fans have filled that niche with high value entertainment, thru D3football/hoops.com and other media. We are pleased with the product and it continues to grow.
Thanks to all who made the Stagg Bowl the success that it was. Stone Station is gaining a reputation for quality and for epitomizing the Spirit of D3. More Stone Stations will continue to appear and prosper and the friendships that they inspire will further enhance the value of D3 athletics.
December 19th, 2005 at 1:36 pm
First timer here….have been reading this Blog for a few days now…….seems like a lot of posters have a mouth problem….Pity…..It is one thing to rib another side..but quite another to call people names…like Mt. Onion and Cheeseheads…shame on you!
All I can say is congrats to both teams……The Dynasty Continues as if I ever had any doubts….
Greatest compliment I heard given to Mt Union was when one of the SportsCasters made a statement that USC was the Mt. Union of Div l
…..now aint that the truth….
December 19th, 2005 at 1:44 pm
Lilpeds - I wouldn’t exactly say WW kept Kmic in check even if you take out that run…if so then Beaver was held in check cause there’s only about a half yard per carry difference between the two if you take out both of their longest gains. Not to mention that stopping him from catching passes out of the back field would also be a requirment in keeping someone in check.
December 19th, 2005 at 1:59 pm
Congrats to Mount Union Purple Raiders for winning their 8th National Championship in 13 years.
I was wrong - you were right. UWW lost and your team won. Good job.
It is hard to believe that one out of every five male students at Mount Union is on the football team.
December 19th, 2005 at 2:01 pm
lilpeds-
re: “let’s be glad you aren’t a recruiter. ”
How much D3 and non-D3 football do you “really” watch and follow (or played)? Based on your comments the last couple of weeks- I’d say not much.
Once again- congrats to both teams. It should be interesting next year to see if MUC and UWW are placed in the same playoff region.
December 19th, 2005 at 2:32 pm
Great game. The better PROGRAM won. As I said last week, the difference would be coaching & experience. Coach K knows what it’s like to play for national championships. He knows the preparations that come the week leading to the game. He knows the distractions his kids will face. He knows how to prepare them for it, to keep their feet grounded and their minds focused on the task at hand. To Mount, it was another Saturday in Salem with a gameplan to execute.
UWW has a very good team with excellent coaching, but they lacked the experience. The experience of not just playing for a National Championship, but preparing for what they’d face down in Salem. It’s a different atmosphere, one that MUC has more experience with then any other DIII team. UWW will be a better program because of this year. I hope to see them again next year at the “Larry Kehres” bowl.
Way to go MUC! The tradition continues!!
December 19th, 2005 at 2:45 pm
I’m sorry oh holy rigg. You are the almighty. Get real, grow up. Can’t I give MY opinion, too? Or are only you just allowed to? Take it as it is.
P.S. I guess I stirred up the old pot with that comment eh? Why don’t you take your precious time and go back to some of my comments throughout the week about two of the best D3 football teams playing in the Stagg Bowl. Boy, those were outrageous comments!
(Now we’ll see rigg copy and paste some of my comments and try to lamely ridicule them)
Happy Holidays!
December 19th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
SeanGOP
One team won the game and one team finished second. There were no losers on that football field. Both teams played their As*es off. Glad to see you too manned up ans admitted you were wrong. Respect is something I know MUC & WW have for each other. This was college football at it’s best.
December 19th, 2005 at 3:32 pm
SeanGOP:
Props to you for coming on and saying what you did. I know when I was at MUC, there were lots of guys that played, although I was not one of them (instead, I sat in the warm press box and called the games). In fact, I seem to recall there being multiple number 97’s, 98’s and 99’s. LOL. Had no idea the ratio was 1 in 5 now, though. Says a lot for the program.
I think without doubt the game was well played. Mount Union’s defense in the middle part of the game was really the difference, but I give UWW all the credit in the world for a gutsy comeback.
jimjearsa:
Couldn’t agree more. No losers. It’s unfortunate when two great teams meet that one has to finish second. I also agree both teams played hard and left it all on the field.
My hat goes off to Chaulk for gutting it out as well. That was a nasty injury that might have stopped someone else.
Finally, sincere congratulations to both schools for great years and to Mount Union for #8! I witnessed a LOT of sportsmanship on Saturday with players from both sides helping their opponents back to their feet.
Happy holidays to one and all!
December 19th, 2005 at 3:33 pm
I have a few comments about the DI-DIII thing. Not looking to start a fight or get into trash talking with anyone, but in my humble opinion: There was probably hardly anyone on that field that could play competitively at DI. Garcon has 4.4 speed…so does every receiver in DI. I really doubt that The Badgers offered Stanley a chance to transfer, because that would be in violation of NCAA rules. If #47 transferred down from D-I to DIII there was a very good reason for it….no one transfers down if they are good enough to play. And Jacobs?????? He goes 22 of 47 against a D-III defense. Jorris was the much better QB,and he would be 4th or 5th in the line of progression of MUC quarterbacks in the past 10 years. Ballard was the best, and he couldn’t play at that level consistently either. These guys are all VERY GOOD D-III players. Could they play D-II? Probably. Could they play D-IAA? Doubtful. Could they play D-I. I don’t think so. There is a reason they weren’t offered D-I scholarships. Bigger, Faster, Stronger….pick one. Again, this is just my opinion, and everyone has their own. But we all love D-III for what it is. Guys playing for the love of the game, because when they graduate they will be done (with very few exceptions).
December 19th, 2005 at 3:39 pm
Didn’t Rowan play and beat a D-IAA school this year or am I mistaken?
December 19th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
The same reason Elliot transferred from Utah to Linfield. But good points and I agree. All the kids are great athletes, some stick out more than others, but to compare them and say they aren’t worthy of something like a DI status isn’t fair. I’m just trying to give the players on the field credit for being out there and competing at that level.
December 19th, 2005 at 3:45 pm
http://d3football.com/school_info.php?school=Rowan&year=2005
Here’s their schedule. I’m not totally sure, but those look like all D-III’s to me. Maybe there’s a D-II????
December 19th, 2005 at 3:45 pm
IMHO, I would transfer to DIII school from DI too if I had a GOOD chance to win a national championship every year I was there. Hopefully, some of the motivation is for a good education, too…..
lilpeds:
You demonstrate my point. Utah wasn’t going to win a DI championship any time soon, so why not transfer to a place you may win multiple titles?
December 19th, 2005 at 3:48 pm
Iceman
You’re right, Robert Morris is I-AA. But they are non-scholarship, which basically means they are D-III. They do that so they can play D-I in basketball. I think a WIAC team beat Drake this year, and they also are nn-scholarshipped IAA
December 19th, 2005 at 3:49 pm
If a school on the schedule does not have a link, they are not Division III.
December 19th, 2005 at 3:51 pm
I think Elliot transferred because he was looking at being behind Smith for his last two years. And quite honestly, that’s why most of these guys tranfer. They want to play, they don’t want to sit out another year, so they drop down a division. And usually it’s a great fit.
December 19th, 2005 at 3:51 pm
pcole:
I thought that was the case, thank you.
mainjack:
Thanks for the clarification on non-scholarship athletes. Does make a difference. I see Robert Morris is DI in hoops, though.
December 19th, 2005 at 3:53 pm
Just because I don’t know, how do you pronounce Kmic? I would pronounce it without the K… like Mic… I apologize in advance for my ignorance, I didn’t get to see the title game
December 19th, 2005 at 3:53 pm
Sorry pcole. I didn’t mean the Robert Morris “was” D-III, just that they play at a D-III level given that they have no scholarships.
December 19th, 2005 at 3:56 pm
Pat wasn’t criticizing you, he was only pointing out that non-linked teams on schedules are not in DIII
December 19th, 2005 at 4:02 pm
mainjack, exactly. That’s why Elliot transferred, like Widuch (47) from WW. Sometimes it just doesn’t pan out.
December 19th, 2005 at 4:05 pm
I would point out that not all D1 receivers have 4.4 speed by any stretch of the imagination (look at the recruiting pages if you don’t believe me and you’ll see 4.4 - 4.7 avg.) Garcon could easily play D1, just depends on where. A school like Temple maybe, OSU probably not. Some kids would rather play at a good program and maybe are even at a school for the education 1st and football second. So I’d just caution blanketing all D3 players as not worthy of D1 (several NFL vets might take exception to your line of reasoning).
December 19th, 2005 at 4:06 pm
sitlux:
Yeah, like London Fletcher (John Carol) and Kenny Anderson (Augustan) to name just a couple.
December 19th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
sitlux,
great name!!! haven’t seen that term since my college days. And yes, there is a big difference between Temple and OSU. I wasn’t meaning to blanket everyone, but I really believe the number that could move up and compete at D-I is very limited.
December 19th, 2005 at 4:17 pm
Just remeber that they are living their dream of Playing College Football and some will try to go Pro. Most don’t make it but some will. Lets not forget that two of the best players to ever wear a Pro Uniform never played D1 football either, and that was Jerry Rice & Walter Payton. But, they kept pushing for their dream. So lets hope one or two make it from this years D3 crop
December 19th, 2005 at 4:19 pm
Agreed it is limited but watching Garcon (6′1 203) I’d say he could play at a lot of D1 schools, he might not play at an OSU but a Cinci might not be out of the question. I was quite impressed with Stanley as well with his shiftiness after the catch…but obviously from watching just that game I can’t say either runs their routes good enough to make D1 but I’d say they’d be worth a look. Their were several D1 caliber players on both sides of that field, but for many of those guys it’s a question of not being looked at coming out of HS (growing and improving in college) or just not having a desire to ride the pine as #3 or 4 or 5 for your entire college career at a big school.
December 19th, 2005 at 4:20 pm
No no, yeah, I was not ragging on you mainjack. In fact, I agree with you about the non-schol I-AA’s.
We were told to pronounce the K and accent the second syllable, k-MICK. Berman pronounced the K and accented the first syllable, as if it were KIM-mick (picture Jimmy Kimmel’s name ending in a K).
December 19th, 2005 at 4:21 pm
It would be interesting to see if Pat or any other staff has the breakdown on how many D-III’s have been drafted in the past 10, how many have gotten free agent tryouts, and how many have actually made it to the show.
December 19th, 2005 at 4:24 pm
I know from MUC, Ballard did have a good shot and played in the World League (2 World Bowl championships with Scotland) as well as with Buffalo, Miami and Pittsburgh in the NFL (no regular season from what I recall).
I also thought Borchert and/or Pugh had tryouts with the Chargers, but I don’t know what happened beyond that.
December 19th, 2005 at 4:25 pm
yea…I was thinking that adamson had a quick look by someone too, in addition to Chris Kern. I think the Vikings brought Kern to camp.
December 19th, 2005 at 4:26 pm
I agree that some may make it at the smaller D1 schools. Jason Taylor played at Akron U. & lets not forget that Jack Lambert wouldn’t have made most D1 big Schools roster, He played for a football powerhouse ( Kent State)
December 19th, 2005 at 4:28 pm
From KSU to Pittsburgh…Lambert will always be a legend. He use to have a football camp in A-town. Does he still do that?
December 19th, 2005 at 4:30 pm
Do you mean the Camp at Mount Union?
December 19th, 2005 at 4:31 pm
Forgot all about Kern.
Did Chuck Moore ever pursue the NFL?
December 19th, 2005 at 4:31 pm
WOW PCOLE did you see that? 30 minutes, 25 posts and no trash talking…a new record.
December 19th, 2005 at 4:33 pm
jimjearsa,
I’m not sure, I’ve been away from A-town for many years, Seems like I remember reading a story about Lambert starting a camp there at one time. maybe it was LK’s camp and he was just teaching.
December 19th, 2005 at 4:34 pm
Mainjack
As a teen I attended a camp with Jack Lambert & Tony Dorsett there.
December 19th, 2005 at 4:36 pm
Iceman,
I think Moore got a tryout too. But didn’t make it. Not enough speed I’m sure.
December 19th, 2005 at 4:37 pm
jimjearsa
You’re making me feel old.
December 19th, 2005 at 4:37 pm
mainjack:
I bet you are right. Did you attend MUC?
I can still remember sneaking onto the field and kicking field goals at midnight. It’s a LOT harder than it looks!
December 19th, 2005 at 4:39 pm
Iceman,
AHS ‘69 MUC ‘73
December 19th, 2005 at 4:40 pm
Very nice. I’m an Akron Firestone grad, with MUC in ‘92. Right before the string started……
December 19th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Iceman,
Swam against Firestone in HS. very ugly….AHS not known for swimming prowess.
December 19th, 2005 at 4:43 pm
mainjack:
Yep… FHS very dominant in swimming - still are amazingly enough. Doesn’t hurt they have their own natatorium. I wasn’t a swimmer, but did play hoops until I blew out my knees.
December 19th, 2005 at 4:50 pm
MainJack
I Grad. 84 from AHS. Had many family members is the 60’s from AHS ( Maxwell’s)
December 19th, 2005 at 4:59 pm
I graduated with Bruce Maxwell, and I believe there was another Maxwell family with about 4 or 5 boys. can’t remember first names.
December 19th, 2005 at 5:00 pm
Harold (Butch) Donald, Tom, John & Leroy. Girls were Pat, Eileen, Kay, Pauline
December 19th, 2005 at 5:03 pm
yea..I went to Liberty, St Street and AHS with Donald.
December 19th, 2005 at 5:07 pm
Mainjack
E-mail me at the above name @ Yahoo
December 19th, 2005 at 5:09 pm
Thanks — that way we can keep the family reunion off the blog.
Chris Kern not only had a tryout and went to camp … with the Lions, by the way … he actually played.
http://www.d3football.com/faq.php?question&category=General
December 19th, 2005 at 5:14 pm
ESPN had a sweet halftime spit on their top 5 D3 players that played in the NFL, and then afterwards listed about 10 more that played. They put Ken Anderson as their number one. Pete Metzelaars was in there, too. I love that name.
December 19th, 2005 at 5:15 pm
Nothing wrong with a little family reunion, guys. I thought it was interesting.
December 19th, 2005 at 5:19 pm
Ballard won one World Bowl Championship with the Scottish Claymores and also was a member with the Bengals and Dolphins.
Adamson had a look from the Pathers and Chargers and Kern got into an NFL regular season game with the Lions prior to being released.
December 19th, 2005 at 5:19 pm
pcole,
I wondered what ever happened to Blake Elliot. The show he put on in the 03 Stagg Bowl was one of the D-III classics.
December 19th, 2005 at 5:37 pm
Signed a free-agent deal with the Vikings, broke his leg in workouts, got an injury settlement. Was not able to play when this season started, so he took another settlement, if I recall correctly. This locked him up for the season, so he couldn’t sign elsewhere until 2006, if he is still interested in pursuing a pro career.
December 19th, 2005 at 5:38 pm
lilpeds do you remember if Rich Romer from Union college was on that top five list? I think he played with the Bengals in the 80s?
December 19th, 2005 at 5:44 pm
#1 Ken Anderson
#2 Billy “white shoes” Johnson
#3 ???
#4 Sam Mills
#5 Chris Warren
December 19th, 2005 at 5:53 pm
Yeah Metzelaars was No. 3 I do believe. Being so young (not that young, though), I didn’t know Chris Warren was a D3 player when I first saw that. Man, he was a train. I don’t remember seeing Romer’s name on the top five or the names they mentioned afterwards.
December 19th, 2005 at 6:14 pm
Make no mistake about it, based on what I saw Sat., Garcon has the physical skills to play at the D1 level. Whether he would be a star at the D1 level is another story. It is hard to make a fair evalutation of a player based on seeing him one time. It might also depend on what D1 school he played at. Also, is he a legit 4.4 guy. He sure looked like it on MUC’s first touchdown Sat.
On another topic. Why would anyone go to a non scholarship I-AA school to play football knowing they have no chance to win a conference championship or NCAA bid? I know academics plays a big role in the decision making process but there are a ton of good D3 options out there. Davidson College is the one I am most familiar with. They have played many D3 schools over the years. Just seems kinda odd to me.
December 19th, 2005 at 6:21 pm
Chris Warren was the leading rusher in the ACC as a freshman at UVA. (I think that is accurate) He transferred to Ferrum. Technically, he was a D3 back. In reality, no way! I will probably get pounded for saying that but as a Ferrum alum, hey, lets be honest here.
December 19th, 2005 at 6:35 pm
allsky, thank you. It IS hard to make a fair evaluation of a player based on seeing them one time. Some may have forgotten that after watching the game.
He honestly used to be one of my favorite players. He was better than Ricky Watters in Seattle!
December 19th, 2005 at 6:36 pm
allsky7
any idea what would have made Warren leave Charlottesville after leading the league in rushing?
December 19th, 2005 at 7:11 pm
mainjack,
Good question! Doesn’t seem to make much sense does it?
December 19th, 2005 at 7:59 pm
Maybe it was just the lure of Ferrum’s campus. :o)
December 19th, 2005 at 10:39 pm
I’m sorry… I’m sorry… but I gotta be the one that does it….
So, I know that the WIAC is the best conference in D3 and all… but can anyone tell me how many teams the WIAC has in the top 25??? I mean I see alot, but couldn’t add them all up….
I’m not good with numbers, so I was wondering if anyone could help??
December 19th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
That would be a relevant point if 25 were the be-all and end-all of quality. The WIAC has more teams in the Top 80 or so than the OAC does — and the OAC has more members!
December 19th, 2005 at 11:28 pm
Technically speaking, Ken Anderson played in the College Division of the NCAA. He was pre-D3!
December 20th, 2005 at 12:07 am
the top 80…. come on… who really keeps track of the top 80….
what’s next the d3 top 100… that will be relevant…
I just had to say it because of all the garbage talk….. funny to me anyways…
December 20th, 2005 at 8:30 am
The top 80 is relevant because when the first place team plays the last place team, it’s still a decent game, unlike other conferences where the first place team scores 50 in the first half. All the teams in the WIAC are competitive, not saying other teams aren’t in other conferences. So these teams beat up on each other throughout the year.
It is rare what Whitewater did because in the past, not many WIAC champs have gone through undefeated - and with relative ease.
I’m not sure and I’m not speaking for Pat, but I think that’s what he is trying to say.
Man, this blog was going good without any trash talking. Figured it wouldn’t last.
December 20th, 2005 at 8:46 am
Tradition is defintely on the OAC’s side too. They have more playoff wins than any other conference. Don’t get me wrong I understand that many of them are Mount Union’s, but BW also has a National Championship in its past. Not to mention, they had 4 teams in the Top 25 at some point this year…..Now dont get all fired up, because Im not trying to take anything away from the WIAC, just defending my own!
December 20th, 2005 at 8:56 am
here we go!
December 20th, 2005 at 9:05 am
I dont know if #1 and #80 matched up that it’d be what you’d call a GOOD game….Just because its not a blowout, doesn’t make the caliber of football any more exciting…
December 20th, 2005 at 9:13 am
I am a Huge Mt.Union Fan. But people be realistic. Just look at the WIAC web-site and look at the weekly results of their teams. That conference had teams playing the following teams this year alone in the regular season, Pacific Luthern, Albion, Linfield, Augustana and St.Johns. If you look at these teams, they all have one thing in common ( Past Nat. Champs) Now Mt. Union has scheduled past Champs as their first game of the year in the past as well, but you take Mt. Union out of the picture. Who does the rest of the OAC schedule for non conference games?
December 20th, 2005 at 9:17 am
No offense lilpeds but you made me do this….
“The top 80 is relevant because when the first place team plays the last place team, it’s still a decent game, unlike other conferences where the first place team scores 50 in the first half. All the teams in the WIAC are competitive, not saying other teams aren’t in other conferences. So these teams beat up on each other throughout the year.”
WW -v- UWEC 28 to 7
WW -v- UWSP 44 to 12
WW -v- UWLC 29 to 23 (The only real close conf. game)
WW -v- UWP 63 to 28
WW -v- UWO 36 to 7
WW -v- UWS 32 to 10
WW -v- UWRF 35 to 16
They aren’t all complete blowouts but I would call half of them competitive.
December 20th, 2005 at 9:17 am
I didnt realize we were on the non-conference schedule discussion…I thought we were still talking about conference strengths, and how much better the WIAC is, even though they are quite a ways removed from their last national championship….but atleast their games are competeitive!
December 20th, 2005 at 9:18 am
Nice work sitlux!!!!
December 20th, 2005 at 9:24 am
jim - just because they schedule them doesn’t mean a lot if they don’t beat them.
UWEC lost to St. John’s
UWSP lost to Linfield and Hardin-Simmons
UWRF beat Pac Lutheran (That powerhouse with a 3-6 record this year)
UWP lost to Augustana
UWO beat Albion
Not exactly a strong argument to boost the WIAC with.
December 20th, 2005 at 9:25 am
Allsky7-
I wouldn’t hammer a fellow Ferrum alum- I agree with you- Warren was definitely not a D3 back considering his success in the nfl and the fact he was drafted in the 3rd round
Mainjack-
It wasn’t the allure of the Ferrum campus that drew him there; it was his D in Greek Mythology class. And also in those days, you could only transfer to D3 without sitting out a year. Ferrum also had a legendary coach at that time, and was a d3 title contender.
Enough of that…. How about the D1 transfer winning the Gagliardi Trophy this year?
I’m sure he’s a great kid- but I would have a hard time voting for him for that reason….
December 20th, 2005 at 9:25 am
Got in town late so I want to congratulate MCT on a great win. They had a great team and definitely were able to take WW out of making the big plays. Too big a hole to get out of when they got it together better in the 4th quarter. The experts were pretty right on when they said the line of scrimmage, coaching and experience would play a part. I think all three did though to differing degrees. Great Raider defense was also a main factor.
Got to say, Pat, that the opening comment attacking WW posters seems alittle tough to me. I have been reading and posting throughout these play-offs and there are always a small number from alot of schools that talk a big game and push the boundries. Every week after a WW win, I would read the WIAC board and the new opponent would come on and tell us how our history indicated an early exit in some colorful ways. It was the same from Central, Linfield, SJU, (which you mentioned,) and MUC. Not much from Wesley as I remember. Even personal attacks and pictures making fun of J. Beaver. Anyway, my only point in bringing any of that up is in response to your comment. I am NOT defending the small handful of obnoxious WW posters, just saying that accusation can be applied to a small number of posters from almost every school. I personally got alittle tired of what seemed a lack of respect from a few posters of all the opponents despite what WW was accomplishing through out the play-offs so it may have made some from WW frustrated and defensive in their posting. Honestly, could it be that bravado is more excepted when you have the Walnut and Bronze to back it up?
Anyway, a very sincere congratulations to a great team, coach and program. Would have done this anyway, but now really inportant because I wouldn’t want to be accused of “slinking away.” LOL
December 20th, 2005 at 9:26 am
Stupid mistake in first line. MUC, sorry!
December 20th, 2005 at 9:27 am
For the OAC…for the record we didn’t play a ton of great team in non-conf. but within the conf. you can’t deny that it has strengthened with Capital and Ott. becoming good teams. It used to be a 3 horse race now it’s a 5 horse race.
December 20th, 2005 at 9:29 am
also accepted, not excepted. Too early!!
December 20th, 2005 at 9:32 am
Hey wiac don’t take the J.Beaver stuff to seriously I think the name is just amusing and an easy target but attacks weren’t meant against him personally…hell I should know with a last name of Small (insert jokes now!)
December 20th, 2005 at 9:39 am
sitlux,
Just making a point to Pat. See. when a WW poster gets carried away, it is bad behavior but others are cut slack for something like that because it is just “all in good fun.” Thanks for helping me make the point!!
December 20th, 2005 at 9:40 am
sitlux
The only thing we know for sure is the Best Team in the Countryis Mt. Union
There is only one way to ever prove who has the better conf. & it will never happen. But, it would be settled if the two conf. would get together and have the OAC/WIAC challenge.
December 20th, 2005 at 9:44 am
The OAC has more strengths with Mount, JCU, BW, Capital, Otterbein, and ONU….Its only real weaknesses are Muskingum, Marietta, and Wilmington, so i guess you could even say that its a 6 horse race!!! I was just getting tired of WIAC fans downplaying the OAC…..The OAC never uderestimated the WIAC, we respected them……maybe thats why we’re national champs…To understand an opponent, you must first respect an opponent
December 20th, 2005 at 9:47 am
wiac…I think if you’ll notice there he included several other schools in the list of crow eaters including MUC.
December 20th, 2005 at 9:49 am
Jim, I love the idea but like you said probably wouldn’t happen. Would be great though similar to the Big10 ACC Challenge except it would actually be meaningful to the season.
December 20th, 2005 at 9:53 am
Sit Lux:
Thats a basketball tournament though…..It would be hard to duplicate in football format….Nonetheless, it would be interesting to watch!
December 20th, 2005 at 9:53 am
PCOLE
Out of respect for the two teams who played in this years Stagg Bowl. Can we change the picture at the top of the site?
December 20th, 2005 at 10:00 am
Wheaton, Wabash, Widener, Rowan, St. John’s (though that one goes both ways).
These were the schools on Pat’s short list, I believe.
December 20th, 2005 at 10:07 am
MUC - What would be hard to duplicate you take the WIAC teams against the OAC teams in the first game of the season … it’s not a tournament anyway in basketball its just games against the other conference.
wiac - the statement “though that one goes both ways” is in reference to MUC losing to St. Johns the other year with much smack talked on our side. We’re all guilty of smack to some degree and Pat was just asking people to man up and eat their crow that’s all.
December 20th, 2005 at 10:18 am
Jimjearsa:
Yes, we’ll get to that at some point. It takes a bit for us to select the photos we want to use since we usually only feature graduated seniors in them. Then we have to handle the graphic element.
Plus, to be honest, most of our attention is on D3hoops.com now. For the first two months of the basketball season, we have to allocate some time to that site while focusing mainly on the end of football. Once football is done, we put a “full court press” on there to make up for lost time.
December 20th, 2005 at 10:19 am
Sitlux
These schools could do this. You do a two year deal. A Home & Home deal and so forth. Just like W-W & Mt. Union did a few years back.
December 20th, 2005 at 10:23 am
It would be great to see I just think it would be hard to get both leagues to step up to the plate, plus without the revenue to make it worth the trips some schools are likely not to want to make that trip. I was actually surprised to see Mt. do the home and home with WasU since they aren’t exactly driving distance.
December 20th, 2005 at 10:26 am
sitlux,
Thanks for explaining that to me. I wasn’t sure what it meant. I am one of those “Johhny-come-lately,s” who hasn’t payed attention to D-3 football until I had a personal reason to do so in the last few years. I am not familiar with all the history.
December 20th, 2005 at 10:28 am
Mt.Union is doing the Same kind of Deal with a school in Virginia for the next two years ( Averett Univ)
December 20th, 2005 at 10:44 am
Sitlux, did you NOT read where I said that many WIAC teams who are champions usually do not go through the conference with relative ease like Whitewater did??
I didn’t think so. Put the whole quote in there, not just the part where you want to ridicule.
No tmany teams go through the WIAC like UW-W did, which was surprising, and therefore, put their team above the rest and made a strong case for one of the best teams in the nation.
That’s all.
We’ve had this stupid argument the last few weeks leading up to the national championship. Drop it, already. Move on.
December 20th, 2005 at 10:46 am
No problem wiac…I had to eat crow that year never thought Mt. would take that pounding against the Johnnies (especially when a good amount came from them killing Kinnard). I’m mainly a D1 fan but my MUC roots keeps me paying attention to what goes on here…this sight becomes addicting in the fall.
December 20th, 2005 at 10:54 am
WIAC as best conference conversation…dropped (hurt foot though due to the weight the argument has carried) Note to self: next time drop lighter conversations or drop further from foot.
December 20th, 2005 at 11:29 am
I think D-III should go to a BCS format!!!!
December 20th, 2005 at 1:18 pm
I think if they played again Saturday UWW would roll Mount Union probably 42-14. The whole Awe of the stagg bowl would be gone and they could play loose football. I will say it will be tough for UWW to get back. Lacrosse will reload, St Johns was young also. I think talentwise Wiac much better then OIC. Many more Nfl PLayers. Mount Union ever had a player stick?
Eric
December 20th, 2005 at 1:33 pm
iknowitall
We all know that won’t happen. They had their chance and will need to earn a spot next year. Just like Mt. Union and all other D3 schools will be fighting for. This is why alot of people were trying to tell SeanGOp & yourself. ITS AN ENTIRE NEW BALLGAME Championship Day. W-W may have been the best team in the Nation this year. But, they were very tight and by the time they realized they were in the National Championship Game they found themselves down 28-7 to Mt. Union. Not only was they team tight but it was very clear to all who watched the game. The W-W coach felt the pressure and made decisions he probably won’t make again. They had a great year, Will most likely be one of the top 4 teams in the country next year.
December 20th, 2005 at 2:00 pm
Iknowitall,
Don’t be so arrogant about WW rolling MUC in a rematch. Many things contributed to the loss as addresssed by jimjearsa but a big part was also the play of MUC defense. Great defenses make great teams play badly!! You are right about it being tough to get back going through the WIAC, however.
December 20th, 2005 at 2:40 pm
I was the guy going on and on about how UWW was going to win it all, after all, they had the toughest path to the finals, and they came from the strongest confernce in the country (According to Massey Ratings).
Hats off to Mount Union. I honestly think after seeing the players on that team that they will be playing for the National Championship next year as well. If I played against Mt. Union I would score a touchdown every time I touched the ball - out of the fear of being tackled by one of those giants.
I still love the WIAC and the CCIW, and it bums me that my team did not win it all, but I have to say I was impressed with Mt. Union - Wow.
I can’t wait for next year.
December 20th, 2005 at 2:43 pm
Where in the heck did “Your comment is awaiting moderation.” come from?
December 20th, 2005 at 2:54 pm
Iknowitall, I thought you were all done with the ridiculous comments. It’s all in heinsight. Nobody else is in denial that Mount beat Whitewater and is the D3 champion.
SeanGOP, I never heard of such a thing. Maybe it’s new?
December 20th, 2005 at 2:55 pm
Next year will be great. I know WW is already making plans for Salem but don’t think it is that easy. Linfield was the odds on favorite this year and lost in the quarters. Remember, the west region has been the toughest top to bottom so to make plans now is crazy. I think all the WIAC schools, Linfield, St. Johns and Concordia will have something to say about WW making it back to the Stagg Bowl.
Merry Christmas and congrats to both WW and MU. You had great seasons!
December 20th, 2005 at 3:05 pm
fb fan:
You are right - making plans now is a good way to be disappointed later. Nevertheless, I’m sure next year will be another great year for the “usual” cast of characters - St. Johns, Rowan, Linfield, UWW, Mt. Union, etc. Will be entertaining, as always, to see it all play out.
December 20th, 2005 at 3:15 pm
I didn’t mean to leave out Rowan, I was referring to the West Region. Arguably the toughest region each year. Anyway, I can’t wait until next year. It should be great!
December 20th, 2005 at 3:17 pm
Oh no no.. I wasn’t picking at you. I was only pointing out that the “regulars” will all be back again next year. It will definitely be great!
December 20th, 2005 at 4:53 pm
jimjearsa,
try e-mailing me at: mainjack@comcast.net
December 20th, 2005 at 5:13 pm
I think the most amazing observation I could make after this weekend is SeanGOP has found his spell check button.
Save your “Onions” for the next Warhawk burger.
Great game by both teams. I saw Whitewater play twice this year and they were the real deal as billed. Gave a great accounting of themselves and played hard till the end. I too think they will be bac next year to challenge for conference and national honors.
Keep up the good work.
December 20th, 2005 at 6:21 pm
No one will ever have all the answers about the playoffs until they are seated like D1. That is, the top 4 teams are all seeded number one in each sectional. This is not like this year when 3 of the top teams were in the West.
As to the toughness of the WIAC, Last year UWP beat Thiel on the road by 3 touchdowns, with a 6-4 team Thiel finished 7-3. This year Thiel made it into the playoffs to the Second Round. My school finished 1-9, losing four winnable games. When the playoffs are expanded next year, strength of schedule and conference needs to be factored in. Both the OAC and WIAC need to get more then one team in. God bless you guys and have a Merry Christmas!
December 20th, 2005 at 6:36 pm
UWPCJ77
I didn’t know the playoffs were being expanded next year. Did I miss something? Also, three of the top teams were not in west. MUC, WW, Linfield, Capital and Rowan were the top five teams. Two in the west, two in the north and one from the east.
December 20th, 2005 at 7:40 pm
I didn’t really want to get into this….BUT
IKNOWITALL
We gave you credit for “Manning” up and admiting that your predictions were clueless. But to come back with the “If they played again” argument three days later is pathetic. Let’s examine the facts.
Offense: WW 86 plays for 438 yards.
MUC 63 plays for 439 yards. WW ran 23 more plays to gain one yard less.
QB: Jacobs 22-47-1 for 310 yards and 3 sacks.
Jorris 20-28-1 for 246 yards and 1 sack.
WW threw 19 more times for 54 more yards
Running Backs: Beaver 30 carries 125 yards
Kmic 28 Carries 185 yards
Beaver carries two more time for 60 yards less
Of course, Kmic had 95 on one carry. But all great coaches know that if you give a great runner the ball enough times, he will eventually break a big one. Beaver’s longest carry: 16 yards.
Star Receivers: Stanley 7 for 99 yards and NO TD’s
Garcon 7 for 107 yards and 2 TD’s
Which brings us to the defense. Hands down, MUC’s defense owned the game. They are the reason that MUC is holding the trophy. WW gets in the red zone 5 times and scores 3. MUC scores all three times they are there.
Mount Union controlled the line of scrimmage the enitre afternoon. Both sides of the ball.
And then there is the coaching!!!!
If they played tomorrow, MUC would win again. If they played in March, MUC would win again. If they played in May, MUC would win again. BUT, come June when players graduate, everything changes. That’s why they will start all over again in August 06.
You made a comment last week that we would all soon know why you have the “handle” that you have. I guess we are still waiting to figure that out.
December 20th, 2005 at 7:54 pm
To all:
In some people’s minds, the actual results of the championship game are not sufficient enough evidence to indicate the better team. As this dialogue could continue ad nauseum, I am officially signing off until next year.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. It’s been a pleasure.
December 20th, 2005 at 8:09 pm
Mainjack,
Those are the final rankings based on the playoffs. We all know that if Wesley (semis) was in the west they would not have made it past the second round. Also, Rowan would not have been in the semi’s had they played in the West. In fact, last years semis Rowan 0 Linfield 56. So the final rankings are not really honest because they are based on how they did in the playoffs.
Consider this. Linfield barely beat Concordia. Concordia barely lost to St. Johns. St. Johns lost to WW badly but turned the ball over 8 times. WW barely beat Linfield. WW almost beat MU.
I will not argue about MU because they are the standard which all other d3 programs are compared. My only point is the West has been stacked the last 3 years. Infact, the last 3 years the winner from the west has either won or played for the National Championship. Also, all three of those teams won close West regional Championship games and then won huge in the semi’s.
Last post of the year. Hope everyone has a great Christmas and new year.
December 20th, 2005 at 9:10 pm
Not gonna lie here, but a bunch of you people make me dizzy and sick reading this blog…
Same arguments, different teams, different conferences…different year.
Phew
December 20th, 2005 at 10:42 pm
Your right Pat. I think we are all pretty loyal to our schools and it hurts when we lose. I am just glad we have a great web page and forum to read and discuss what is happening around the nation. Once again, I can’t wait until next year. Will Mount repeat…again? Will we have a rematch? How much will Linfield fall without Brett Elliot? Many questions. But as we all know, they will all be answered next year.
December 21st, 2005 at 12:34 am
fbfan
“So the final rankings are not really honest because they are based on how
they did in the playoffs.” So I suppose elections are not really honest because they’re based on actual votes and not polls? “…the West has been stacked the last 3 years.” Instead of being proud of all the good teams in the West region you complain because they actually have to play against each other to represent the region. I guess the NCAA isn’t politically correct enough for the West region–we need afirmative action to help them out. Still, even with all those titans in the West Region, the West’s declared “Nat’l Champ” couldn’t win it all. The tears roll down the cheeks of all football fans for the injustice done to the west teams—NOT.
December 21st, 2005 at 12:48 am
Mainjack, I’m just asking and I’m not trying to be a toad, but with all the rambling about stats, did I decipher right that you think Kmic is better than Beaver? I’m just wondering, I don’t want to open a can of worms.
December 21st, 2005 at 7:30 am
Gee, sure hope we can find something else to talk about besides the “what ifs” and “if onlys” for the next 7 months. Until then……..you know I really think that “if only” H-SC had made the playoffs, they would have scored “at least” 50 on both MUC and W-W. MUC and W-W would have scored “at most” 20.
d3hoops.com, watch out, here I come.
Merry Christmas everyone!!
December 21st, 2005 at 9:23 am
lilpeds-
YES- Kmic was better than Beaver in last saturday’s championship game- the stats prove that.
Why is that so hard to understand?
December 21st, 2005 at 10:05 am
Obviosuly the stats don’t lie. And it isn’t har dto understand. Why do you assume so much?
December 21st, 2005 at 10:06 am
Can’t answer a simple question without firing back…
Would you take Kmic over Beaver for a whole season? Again, a simple question that is basically yes or no. No need to fire back with some lame attempt at a witty comeback.
December 21st, 2005 at 10:50 am
Here’s a salient point you guys are overlooking: Kmic was running against UW-Whitewater’s defense and Beaver was running against Mount Union’s defense. Whitewater’s defense allowed 29% more yards per game over the course of the season.
December 21st, 2005 at 10:52 am
Now there is something I was dumb enough not to look up.
Thanks Pat.
I’d take Beaver. And lots of it
Yeah I’m bias, I don’t care though.
December 21st, 2005 at 11:15 am
We can all agree they are both outstanding running backs.
What year is Beaver? A junior? I know Nate Kmic is only a freshman. Frankly, I think it’s too hard to say I’d take one or the other for the course of an entire season. How about both of them? Imagine that backfield….
December 21st, 2005 at 11:25 am
lilpeds-
holy smokes- you’ve driven me off this website- and you are probably happy about that.
i’m out….
December 21st, 2005 at 11:48 am
Wow,
These posts have become really tough to read. I’m a UWW fan and even I know that the only important debate was settled Saturday by a score of 35-28. We can talk all day about the if’s, maybe’s, coulda, shoulda, woulda’s, but it won’t change the fact that on that particular day Mount Union played the better game, WAS the better team and deserved to win. Any argument about who the better team MAY be is mute. And “Iknowitall”, please do this forum a huge favor and slowly(ok maybe not so slowly)fade off into the sunset. Your constant, less than brilliant comments make all UWW fans look stupid. I especially like your prognostication that if UWW played MUC again they’d roll them by the score of 42-14. If you’re livelihood depends on predicting the outcome or scores of sporting events, you’re in the wrong line of work. And it may be in everyone’s best interest to wait a couple of years before we even attempt to compare Beaver and Kmic
December 21st, 2005 at 11:55 am
Oh yeah,
I almost forgot. Once again, congrats to Mount Union for a great win last saturday and I’d like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and a safe and prosperous New Year. Until then…….
December 21st, 2005 at 1:06 pm
fb fan,
You asked the question of how far will Linfield fall without Brett Elliott. That’s a good question but Linfield was pretty good too before Brett Elliott (Ranked #3 in the final 2003 poll).
However the losses Linfield takes this season extends far great that at QB (which is a big loss). The ‘Cats will no longer have their 3 starting WR who were so key into the over the past 3-4 years (Allen (A-A 1st team in ‘04 & ‘05), Hazenberg (A-A in ‘04), and McKecknie), they also lose their best DE (Tom), best LB (Olsen (2005 A-A 2nd team)), 3 year starting Safety (Ort (2005 1st team A-A)), and both corners.
I don’t think fans will have the expectations of the previous few years but I think Linfield is going to surprise some folks with some young talent they have in stock. While I don’t think they’ll be putting up 49 points a game they’ll still be in the West Region mix as a player.
December 21st, 2005 at 2:25 pm
wildcat:
Kind of interesting you say that. I’ve been guilty of thinking that certainly {insert year} would be the year Mount Union would be talent-deficient and either be beaten or not have a good playoff run. And so far, I’ve been wrong nearly every year. It seems that these teams are deep at many of the skilled positions and are redadily able to re-load. I won’t be surprised to see Linfield highly rated and a factor once again next year. Gratned, they sound as though they are losing a LOT, but who’s to say what’s coming in won’t be better?
December 21st, 2005 at 4:50 pm
I think it’s about time Augustana make passing a part of their game. Each time they played MUC they got behind big and couldn’t do anything about it. Down by 30+ points but throw the ball only twice? The kids desreve better. Thoughts?
December 21st, 2005 at 5:04 pm
jdean,
I guess I hit a nerve! Sorry about that. I know that we play regionally. And I know you seem to think the West is overrated. My only point was that the west is deeper. When St. Johns won in 2003 they had to come from behind at half to beat Linfield 31-25. They blew out RPI in the semis and kind of handled MU in the final. Last year Linfield came from 14 down to Occidental and won. Then they played Rowan in a Tight Semifinal 56-0. Although they were never behind Mary-Hardin Baylor played them tough in the final.
How can Wesley win a region and then get beat so badly in the Semi’s? Last y