Instant reactions to Week 1 results
Sep
2006
Not sure if I want to step on Pat and Gordon’s Sunday tradition of “immediate thoughts on Week 1″ so the door is open for a separate blog tomorrow if this doesn’t cover the bases.
I was supposed to go to Salisbury at Washington & Jefferson today, before a confluence of events finally got me to admit at 4 a.m. last night that there was a 50% chance I wouldn’t/shouldn’t go.
I still wanted to see the game, a both teams. Perhaps I should have. Because although my first idea for ATN this week died right there on the field (how having 5 O-Lineman back precipitates early success), a new one seems to have been born.
The mid-Atlantic shakeup. It’s only 4:38, and already No. 15 W&J has gone down by double digits and two 2005 conference champions from the mid-Atlantic have taken losses (Ferrum, 49-35 at Guilford and Johns Hopkins, 20-10 at home vs. Rochester).
Salisbury, meanwhile, is a mid-Atlantic 2004 playoff team perhaps on track towards getting back, unlike Shenandoah, who did not impress in a 17-6 loss to Catholic on Thursday.
As for selfish pats on the back, I believe I used the word “smoked” in conjunction with Mount Union-Averett in ATN this week (64-7 final), but I, uh, also, may have, uh, indicated that possibly Waynesburg could hang with No. 8 Wesley. (41-14 final).
You win some, you lose some???
Open for other thoughts …
September 2nd, 2006 at 4:55 pm
Huntingdon faired poorly against #24 Ithaca, losing 31-12. The Hawks’ running game netted -4 total yards.
September 2nd, 2006 at 5:09 pm
I was going to wait on another update on the Blue Boys-Big Blue game before I made the “look at the IBFC and MWC” remark, but here goes:
Concordia (Wis.) 30-16 over Simpson, and Illinois College leads Millikin 14-10 at the half. Still. Knox up 20-0.
Wooster over JCU seems to be a mild upset.
Rowan, Capital, Oshkosh and Wilkes won as expected, but in big blowouts.
Kenyon hung 57 on Grinnell.
Central/St. T and BV/Bethel forged an IIAC/MIAC split, while Loras took another hard-luck loss (it appears) to St. Ambrose.
Again, this is just off watching the scoreboard.
September 2nd, 2006 at 5:11 pm
With the Question involving the battleof The East vs. The South as the weakest region, the South looks to be taking the “lead”. Of the 3 inter-region games I have seen scores of thus far, the East has gone 3-0.
Rochester defeats Johns Hopkins 20-10.
Ithaca easily disposes of Huntingdon 31-12
Rowan also easily beats Christopher Newport 32-8.
I probably have missed some, but the east looks good in East-South Matchups thusfar (Although Rowan and Ithaca were favorites to win intheir games).
September 2nd, 2006 at 5:13 pm
Good day for the East region so far
September 2nd, 2006 at 5:18 pm
Actually make it 4-0 with Lebanon Valley defeating Gettysburg 13-12.
September 2nd, 2006 at 6:59 pm
I wouldn’t throw too much dirt on the top of Huntingdon just yet. Certainly a win would have been preferable but we don’t know too much about the game. Sometimes openers aren’t necessarily indicative of future results.
With that in mind, what we saw today at William Paterson was good news for Wilkes fans. As a Catholic grad it was a nice touch to see alumnus Greg Sesny in his first game as offensive coordinator pull out some of the Marty Favret playbook in the 31-3 win.
September 2nd, 2006 at 7:12 pm
Ithaca was in control from minute one. You can tell that Huntingdon has flashes of explosiveness (especially from WR #2), but they’re just not in Ithaca’s league yet.
September 2nd, 2006 at 7:37 pm
What a day! I mean, as long as we’re getting our alma mater pennants and streamers out …
How about the Jackets opening up with a W vs. Denison AND Sewanee beating Hampden-Sydney?!?!
September 2nd, 2006 at 9:20 pm
Whitewater 38-7 in first half against a team that might make the playoffs. I mean whats the point of all these teams making the playoffs if they dont even provide competitive first and second round games. Mount Union rolled too.. Maybe MU and UWW should just play a best of 15 game series to determine the national champ. Nice call on wanting to be at Point/Simmons game its a real barnburner, Point sucks just like I said. I didnt get the name knowitall without reason!!!!!
September 2nd, 2006 at 9:50 pm
Keith didn’t say that he wanted to be at HSU/UW-SP. I did. And I bow to your knowledge.
If you don’t mind, I think we’ll play the rest of this season out. Even if we’re all flies smashed on the windshields of Mount Union and Whitewater.
September 2nd, 2006 at 11:01 pm
As a former letterman at the “J” and the son of a former college and high school coach, I don’t consider myself a coach killer….but the tradition of nasty defense and hard nosed football seems to have left with Lucky (winning at Cal) ….a Mt. Union spinoff in WashPa hasn’t got the job done. The player alums are tired of our defense giving up more points and yards than a circa 1995 Thiel team! Our defense has been easier to score on than a DG Sister after 12 Beasts. ….grass basketball and prolific statistics don’t mean a thing without the “W” in front of them. My donations have stopped until we can stop someone, or at least put the Riddell stamp under someone’s chin. I’m glad I spent the day in Morgantown.
September 2nd, 2006 at 11:20 pm
I think UW-La Crosse beating D-I “championship division” South Dakota State becomes the news of the day. Great win.
September 2nd, 2006 at 11:28 pm
When we see Lacrosse stay within 4 touchdowns of UWW then we can praise them! Did UWW break 100 tonight?
September 3rd, 2006 at 12:39 am
Nice win for UWW, but really, it’s not like they beat Lakeland by any more than they did last year. Now the UW-La Crosse score… good 40+ point swing from last year and a nice W… impressive.
September 3rd, 2006 at 12:40 am
Keith’s already opened the party, which is just fine. Even finer if he lets me crash Around the Nation this week. : )
In any event, here are my thoughts on the weekend that was.
Chalk one up for the little guys: Division III was already having a pretty good week against NAIA and other levels of the NCAA before UW-Lax upset South Dakota State.
SDSU is a Division I-AA program, but the important distinction here is that they offer scholarships. Many of the other Division I-AA programs on Division III schedules don’t (Butler, Iona, etc).
Other noteworthy wins against non-Division III opponents include a 7-0 win for No. 25 Thiel at 2005 NAIA playoff team Geneva and a 7-0 win for Howard Payne over Southern Nazarene who apparently had votes in the NAIA preseason poll.
Turn back the clock: I’ve heard rumblings that Trinity (Texas) has been somewhat on the decline despite their continued string of SCAC titles. Similarly Wartburg started this season outside the Preseason Top 25 for the first time in a while.
Nevertheless Week 1 was a throw-back for both teams who registered big victories. Trinity pummeled East Texas Baptist 41-0 while Wartburg shut out MWC champ Monmouth 20-0.
Crow D’Jour: So much for that close game between Wilmington and Mt. St. Joseph that I predicted. The Lions came out and stomped the Quakers 24-0, holding them to 52 yards of total offense.
In retrospect I should have seen this coming. I mean, can a Quaker even fight back if he’s attacked by a lion? Isn’t that against his pacifist creed? How is this a fair fight?
Oh well. I’ll eat my crow this week with Cincinnati-style chili in honor of Mt. St. Joseph.
Offense is overrated: Carthage finishes with 87 yards and beats Carroll anyway 10-6.
So is starting slowly: Capital has outscored Wittenberg 119-9 in first half of their last three season openers.
A little worried about: No. 16 Concordia-Moorhead who fell to cross town rival Moorhead State 28-7. Last year the Cobbers beat the Division II Dragons 29-12.
Three cheers for: Hartwick running back Lindy Crea who had 328 yards of offense – 220 rushing, 108 receiving – in the Hawks 30-28 win over Endicott…Kenyon who scored 57 points against Grinnell for the Lords’ highest offensive output since 1909…and Menlo who broke its 15 game losing streak with a 14-0 win over McMurry.
September 3rd, 2006 at 1:08 am
As Mizzou says, that UWLX win looks even bigger when you compared it to last season. Plus, I believe SDSU has been gradually adding scholarships (they’re now at 50) as they build towas the division limit.
I’ve got it 7-2 vs. the NAIA and St. Olaf’s road romp was over a team ranked 24th in two NAIA polls.
September 3rd, 2006 at 1:17 am
What did I miss?
2:00 pm St. Ambrose 17 at Loras 15
2:00 pm Central Methodist 20 at Westminster (Mo.) 8
2:30 pm St. Norbert 31 at Olivet Nazarene 13
3:00 pm St. Olaf 31 at Valley City State 14
7:00 pm Thiel 7 at Geneva 0
7:00 pm Howard Payne 7 at Southern Nazarene 0
7:00 pm Taylor (Ind.) 10 at Anderson 17
Or are we including the Thursday games?
September 3rd, 2006 at 3:36 am
Hey,
I agree or was interested by everything posted on this thread today, even knowitall.
Ah, you know I gotta beef with the so-called knowitall. You act like Whitewater’s been dominant for years. You have to go all the way back to the last game of ‘04 to find the last time LaCrosse stayed within four TDs of Whitewater … when they thumped the Warhawks 35-10. Last year Whitewater won 29-23.
Do you talk out of any place besides your backside?
Gordo, where did you hear rumblings of Trinity (Texas)’s demise? … You can crash ATN anytime, I need an official numbers cruncher/research assistant. It pays little and there’s no upward mobility though …
September 3rd, 2006 at 8:23 am
In response to the Ithaca/Huntingdon game… IC’s sophomore QB Dan Juvan looked impressive in his first career start. Juvan threw for 300+ yards and 3 scores on a rain drenched field and answered any questions about his ability to replace graduated QB Josh Fellicetti. The Bombers also answered another major question from last season… their defense. IC held Huntingdon to -4 yards rushing and 12 total points. It seemed like a great start to the year for the Bombers.
September 3rd, 2006 at 9:35 am
pat,
Wouldn’t you count Thursday’s two d3 wins as Week One? Or am I missing something … (admittedly, I don’t do well in the a.m.)?
7:00 pm William Penn 18 at UW-Stout 25
8:00 pm Mayville State 7 at Hamline 38
September 3rd, 2006 at 10:13 am
Trinity (TX) losing in the first round three straight years prolly has something to do with perceptions of their demise … but last night was one of their best starts to a season in quite a while.
September 3rd, 2006 at 11:13 am
It is just the first week of the season but Rochester’s win over Hopkins has to give the’jackets a big, big lift. Hopkins has been formidable of late and Rochester has been mediocre. Yesterday sends a message to Union, Hobart, and RPI, “LOOK OUT!”
September 3rd, 2006 at 11:13 am
Come on Keith, D3knowitall deals in the present not outcomes from 2 years ago with totally different players. Yes Lacrosse had UWW number in past but this team is different. Another team you mentioned as possibly knocking off MU or UWW was St Johns. They had impressive outing putting up 15 points against a bottom of the pack WIAC team Eau Claire yesterday, so they can officially be scratched off the contender list. That guy has a good analogy “bug on the windshield” cause thats what these other teams basically are. Seriously what team can beat them?
September 3rd, 2006 at 11:55 am
The year St. John’s won the national title they didn’t blow out UW-Eau Claire either. St. John’s made the national semifinals in 2002 and LOST to UW-Eau Claire. You can’t make sweeping generalizations on that — you don’t even know how good Eau Claire is in 2006.
Remember, dealing in the present.
September 3rd, 2006 at 11:56 am
Repete:
They definitely count. I just wasn’t 100% sure my 1 a.m. Sunday count was accurate.
September 3rd, 2006 at 12:05 pm
I actually came into work on a Sunday so I could check out the website.
It looks like another good year for the CCIW and the WIAC - and a lot of other schools as well.
So much for Monmouth’s season. As soon as someone from that conference plays talent - they lose. Too bad, I like Monmouth.
September 3rd, 2006 at 3:35 pm
In response to the Whitewater/Mount vs. everyone else debate. I don’t know enough about Whitewater, but I have good friends who go Mount and one who played there. It’s really a no-brainer concerning Mount, becuase of the talent they continually get to come to there school. I am sure most of you know about their WR Garcon, but do you know that they have another WR who is a D-I transfer from Kent who is even better than Garcon? It’s really not hard to be dominant in D-III when you are getting D-I and D-II recruits and transfers. Like I said, I don’t know about Whitewater, but Mount has a leg up on the majority of D-III schools when it comes to bringing in higher caliber players.
September 3rd, 2006 at 5:29 pm
Kent State? That’s pretty funny…………….
September 3rd, 2006 at 6:20 pm
That’s what I hear. Funny or not, Mount continues to get better players than the majority of other D-III schools. That goes a very long way in winning 8 Titles and running off and 4 and 5 straight years without a loss.
September 3rd, 2006 at 6:51 pm
So I put my foot in my mouth about Ferrum having another great year. I expect the team to turn it around for USAC play but until the D steps up its going to be a long season. The offense still put up numbers on the ground. Pass-coverage continues to be an obvious weakness.
September 3rd, 2006 at 11:06 pm
So much for the big game in Danville that I wrote about in an earlier post. Looks like the Cougars (and many more for that matter) still have some work to do before they get off the front porch. Hard to make a call after one week but looks like the USA South may be anyones to grab.
Am I losing my mind or was the score posted Sat. on d3f with Ferrum beating Guilford? Congrats to the Quakers. Of course the ODAC is still Bridgewater and everyone else until the Eagles get knocked off the mountain top, but keep an eye on the Quakers to make a little noise in the ODAC. H-SC…..my…my…my!!! IMO, the Tigers have not recovered from the roughing the passer call against BC three years ago.
Ok, Keith, careful now!!! I know it’s tough not to crow when the Jackets are 1-0 and the Tigers are 0-1.
I know it is a long way from here to Salem but I would not be surprised at all to see MU and UWW there again in Dec. Unless of course they beat up on each other in an earlier round.
September 4th, 2006 at 11:40 am
in response to BDTartan…..i am a student at UWW, as well as friends with a good number of the players. we dont get players from DI or DII schools the way Mount Union seems to. Would i be against that???? obviously not!!! our players come to whitewater knowing that they are coming to a consistent and hardworking team. not to mention the fact that our coaching/facilities/and fans are almost second to none………also in response to the comment saying that UWW didnt beat Lakeland by any more last year. this is true, BUT, we also kept our starters in much longer last year. had we kept starters in at qb, rb, and wr, we could have made the game more of an embarrasment than it already was on the scoreboard. with so many returning starters, i cant imagine this season to be anything close to a disapointment.
September 4th, 2006 at 12:31 pm
Not sure about the D-II thing — UWW might not get transfer, but how many Division II football programs are there in Wisconsin again?
UWW gets its share of Division II quality players.
September 4th, 2006 at 1:00 pm
but they dont get a chance to play at a higher level first, as in a case with transfers…….we have plenty of schools who are just as good as other d2 schools. this was shown by this weeks win by uw-lax. they can beat quality teams in “higher divisions” without being the best team in our conference. players from wi/ill/mn have plenty of opportunity to chose a school that fits them. it doesnt matter that we lack d2 schools.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:07 pm
The Kleppe injury for UWW might hurt, as we (during our miracle run last year) had our 22 starters miss ZERO games due to injury. I’m not sure how long a broken arm will keep Kleppe out, but at the worst we should have him back for the playoffs.
The biggest challenge for UWW this year will be finding a #2 option in the passing game when some of the better teams (like Mount Union in the NC game) find a way to shut Stanley down. Derek Stanley might be the best end in DIII this year, but that was our one weekness last season.
Our Jacobs/Beaven/Stanley combo is likely the best QB/RB/WR trifecta in D3, and we should consistently put up alot of points. If UWW can get past MHB, i see us running the table again and a rematch of the 2005 Stagg Bowl.
September 4th, 2006 at 2:37 pm
When you win as many championships as MUC you are sure to have the advantage of more quality talent knocking on your door whether it comes in the form of freshmen or tranfers. “Winning breeds winning.” UWW has had some great tranfers as well, several from UWMadison and I agree with Pat that UWW does get its share of DII quality talent. I know of several UWW starters that turned down D-2 money to play at UWW. However where I feel the playing field is far from level is in the fact that MUC and many DIII schools have an open number of roster spots. I read on post patterns a little while ago that MUC will have a 219 man roster this year with 119 freshman!! (don’t know if this is accurate.) The WIAC schools are limited to 100 which is a crazy disparity if you ask me. Much easier to “reload” with twice the number of players to develop.
September 4th, 2006 at 5:48 pm
Enough of the pity party for UWW and recruiting. Bottom line last year UWW had more talent but MU got it done in final. Whitewater players had the “deer in headlights” syndrome during that game. MU outcoached UWW also in the final game. No excuses!!!!!
September 4th, 2006 at 6:13 pm
D3,
I agree with you. I only saw MU & UWW once last year and that was in Salem. I thought UWW had more talent but as you mentioned, MU “got it done”.
And don’t worry, being a fan of the ODAC & USA South, I won’t be having a recruiting pity party any time soon for UWW.
September 4th, 2006 at 7:37 pm
There is no pity here, I was just pointing out that the “bugs on the windshield” have a seemingly undeniable advantage in certain areas of their programs that lead them to Titles and long winning streaks.
September 4th, 2006 at 8:13 pm
Good win by Thiel!
September 4th, 2006 at 8:23 pm
Football players don’t transfer from Kent State to Mount Union, maybe the other way around. I had the misfortune to witness the Kent State-Minnesota game last Thursday. I left as soon as the 50-50 drawing. It was just awful. BTW could someone point out all these DI transfers instead of “alluding” to them. Names please.
September 4th, 2006 at 10:07 pm
Actually, D3knowitall, I agree totally with your accessment of the Stagg Bowl outcome. I think you nailed it.
September 5th, 2006 at 9:42 am
allsky7 - Good to see you online. I was at the Ferrum game and I think the Guilford Quakers will make some noise this year. You’re absolutely right, Bridgewater is still king, but I think the Eagles are looking around a bit this year - not just at Guilford - but the whole ODAC to see who’s rattling the throne.
September 5th, 2006 at 10:08 am
UWWthsyr5 said: “not to mention the fact that our coaching/facilities/and fans are almost second to none”
well….many teams fans makes statements like that. I guess UWW facilities are really nice but fans support is not what I would call “almost second to none”.
If I’m not mistaken UWW could only draw around 1,500 fans for it’s first round game vs. Central last year. That is pretty damn sad considering UWW has a student body of 10K.
September 5th, 2006 at 10:44 am
BC should be keeping an eye on Guilford and W&L. I had high hopes that maybe H-SC could knock off BC. Don’t see it happening unless one of the Tiger FR QB’s grows up quickly and/or BC turns the ball over 4 or 5 times.
) D1-AA’s I thought it relevant. Are they no longer making a distinction between D1-A and AA?
Could the MC Fighting Scots be ready to make a move in the USA South? Thumping a first year program doesn’t mean much at this point of the season but the Scots do have a bunch of starters back and have picked up a stud FR RB. Perhaps with a number of experienced players, they can win the close ones that they lost last year.
Anyone know what the skinny is on D1-AA this year. I know it’s not D3 but since some D3’s play (and beat
September 5th, 2006 at 11:44 am
In response to Mount getting transfers from D1 schools…. whenever anyone has transfered in (Cincinnati, Akron, Kent, ect….) these players have never even seen the field. Those players are usually walk-ons at bottom of the road MAC schools that don’t cut it at Mount Union as well. Mount gets D2 talent because of the lacking number of D2 and D1-AA schools in the state and region. As for Garcon, he is a transfer from another D3 school. Mount Union brings in talent. Like someone wrote earlier…winning breads winning - just as losing breads losing.
September 5th, 2006 at 11:59 am
Never had breaded winning or breaded losing before. How does it taste?
Sorry VAraider…..I couldn’t resist. No offense.
September 5th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
I’m not familiar with the idiosyncrasies of animal husbandry in Ohio, but perhaps you mean “winning breeds winning - just as losing breeds losing.” Unless, of course, you play for “Wheat”on, then some bread might be just what’s “kneaded.” Only kidding with you!
Peace
September 5th, 2006 at 12:35 pm
Like the linebacker from Army who never saw the field?
Can’t speak in absolutes, VAraider.
September 5th, 2006 at 3:06 pm
8 times. still smiling.
September 5th, 2006 at 3:39 pm
0 times. still smiling that I’ve never asked anyone “do you want fries with that?” since graduation.
September 5th, 2006 at 7:07 pm
Fellas,
It’s soooo early, way too soon to be drawing conclusions about who will “definitely” meet in Salem. It wouldn’t be a shock to see UWW and/or MUC back, but it wouldn’t be a shock — to me, at least — if one or both lost before the playoffs or in the playoffs before Salem. Nothing is guaranteed, and as good as both of those teams were last year, they each played three or so games that were tight and possibly could have gone the other way (or did go the other way), so it’s not really wise to act like no one out there can match either of them.
As far as knowitall, I’ve got you pegged now. I’ll officially stop taking you seriously.
As far as Mount Union (or Rowan or wherever else this complaint comes up repeatedly) getting transfers, the reality is that — in Division III — the transfers spend more time seeking out winning programs than the programs do seeking out those guys, because they’re few and far between. Most good D3 programs have some transfers or guys that didn’t like it/cut it at another school, that’s not too abnormal. And frankly, Mount Union built, and continues to build, its dynasty with kids recruited straight out of Ohio’s high schools.
If we want to talk inequalities in Division III, how about how the tuition differences between Mount Union ($10,000+), Rowan ($6-12,000), UW-Whitewater (varies, but can be under $5,000) and your Hobarts of the world ($33,000 … $43,500 with room and board)?
Money talks, and certainly has a great effect on the ability to bring in talent in quantity, if not quality.
September 5th, 2006 at 7:13 pm
“If I’m not mistaken UWW could only draw around 1,500 fans for it’s first round game vs. Central last year. That is pretty damn sad considering UWW has a student body of 10K.”
The full-time student body of UWW is somewhere around 8k on any given year. According to the NCAA, UWW’s football attendance ranked 13th in the country out of 227 schools in 2005 with an average attendance of 3574 for 8 games. (This would not include the playoffs.)
September 5th, 2006 at 7:52 pm
Watcher,
13th out of 227 is great.
I do find the passion for some the schools to be very strong. I mean you have schools with student bodies of 1,025-1,750 and are drawing 3,900-4,500 a game. I would like to see what attendance might be if those schools have they had a potential 6,000 more undergrads to draw from. I still find it odd that such a good football team with such a large student body could only draw 1,500 for a playoff game…..
September 5th, 2006 at 7:58 pm
Depending on the school’s class schedule and the weather, playoff attendance widely varies. Kids might be home for Thanksgiving, even for the first round. And students who are accustomed to getting in free might not react well to the mandatory NCAA admission charge.
September 5th, 2006 at 10:53 pm
I believe the first round game last year was on Halloween…. As many of you know, the most famous halloween party in the US happens to be in madison, wisconsin, and i suspect thousands of uww students were out on state street during that weekend….
Its great to see UWW have so much success (several national titles in Baseball, Volleyball, (almost in Track/FB, etc) the past few years, but Wisconsin is a dominant program (in Men’s Basketball, Football, and Hockey), and the DIII teams in the State are drowned out alot by UW…
Still, I would expect attendance to be up at UWW significantly this year
September 5th, 2006 at 11:02 pm
I thought the most “famous” Halloween party would be in Salem.
September 5th, 2006 at 11:05 pm
“Where are all the fans?” by warhawkfootball.com
http://www.warhawkfootball.com/viewnews.asp?pId=667
Come on Pat…it’s state school, those students should have the extra cash laying around!
(joking)
September 6th, 2006 at 12:03 am
Got me pegged Keith???? Is that good or bad. I call it like it is!!!!
September 6th, 2006 at 12:49 am
You keep on talking no matter what. That’s alright, I know what that’s like.
Can I call you the Fred Smoot of the blog?
Warhawk, there was definitely no first-round playoff game on Halloween, so long as that’s still Oct. 31.
It’s easy for me to remember because my birthday is Veterans Day, and the last week of the regular season has fallen on or around that day every year since I’ve been involved with Division III, which is 12 or 13 seasons now. So the first round of the playoffs usually falls around Nov. 18, or the third Saturday in Nov.
Something like that.
September 6th, 2006 at 7:33 am
Keith,
Good points about the MU / UWW “rematch” in Salem this year. I’m guilty sometimes of filling out my brackets a little early. There is no doubt MU is a machine on a roll but there have been a few other champions since 93. UWW doesn’t have the history of MU but the Warhawk team I saw in Salem last year was one of the best D3 teams I have ever seen. (despite the fact they lost)
) Still one of the most incredible D3 games ever. Point being, as great as it has been to be involved with these two conferences for the last 30+ years, they have not achieved on the national stage (football) like some others around the country. IMO, there are numerous reasons for that which have been more than covered before. It just shows how hard it is to get to the highest levels and stay there.
Of course, I am most familiar with the ODAC & USA South conferences. In recent years (other than Bridgewater) neither of these conferences has gone very deep into the playoffs. Many have probably forgotten that prior to 2000, BC was the worst team in the ODAC for years and years. In the almost 30 year history of the ODAC, E&H may have advanced past the first round a time or two and the 1977 H-SC team was a fantastic offensive team but they lost to Albany State 52 to 45 in the first round. (and Marty Favret wasn’t even there
Back to the recruiting thing. To me it’s pretty simple. If I’m a reasonably intelligent blue chip Ohio HS player (but questionable D1 level) I can: A) Be a blocking dummy at Ohio State B) Be a starter/star at an average D3 program C) Go to MU and have a legit chance to win a national championship. I know which one I would choose!!
September 6th, 2006 at 9:36 am
Wasn’t the first round of the 2005 DIII playoffs on November 19? The DIII schedule seems to always be 11 weeks, with the last week of the regular season ending on the 2nd Saturday in November. Halloween is October 31st, so the attendance argument presented earlier simply doesn’t fly.
September 6th, 2006 at 10:11 am
I find all of this “MUC vs WWW in the ‘06 Stagg” talk rather hilarious. It’s WAY TOO EARLY to be worrying about the championship game. There’s no guarentee that either school will even win it’s own conference, let alone make it thru to the Stagg. Based on last year’s results and the number of starters returning, there’s no doubt they are the favorites, but that’s exactly what we thought about Linfield last year and MUC heading into 2003 and 2004. In fact one could argue that Linfield was a bigger favorite heading into 2005 than either MUC or WWW this year and we all know how that worked out.
If I had to list the most likely teams to make the ‘06 Stagg, I’d rank them as follows:
1. Mount Union - LK returns all key members of O, D is young but fast & deep
2. Rowan - great D and returns All-American QB to lead
3. Whitewater - hard to repeat a 10-0 season in the WIAC
4. Capital - 2nd best team MUC saw in ‘05 and return Pentello for a 7th season
5. St Johns - should be loaded and never count out Gagliardi
6. Hardin Simmons - very good team returns a stud QB
7. everyone else
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised to see any of the above teams in Salem VA. A lot of it will depend on injuries (see Rowan and H-S last year), and match-ups in the playoffs. What if MUC loses an OAC game again and has to travel to Rowan or WWW in the Semi’s? That drastically changes the odds of MUC reaching the Stagg. Or what happens to WWW if Beaver or Jacobs gets hurt?
The discussion of recruiting is always an interesting one for me. One thing to remember is that there are a few differences in the Ohio vs Wisconsin recruiting that in my opinion make the comparison between the WIAC and OAC schools even more clouded. The $ part has already been mentioned (though I think the MUC amount quoted above is too low).
The Wisc D3 schools have the advantage that there is only one D1 school in the entire state to compete with, but have the disadvantage that there isn’t the population numbers to pull from like Ohio. The WIAC schools also have the 100 man roster limit that might scare away a few kids of trying. Don’t know what the D1-AA or D2 landscape is in Wisc though, but it’s my impression that it’s non-existant as the state backed D3 schools fill that role in Wisc.
The Ohio D3 schools have the advantage that there is a ton of quality depth in the local high schools, but there is numerous D1 colleges to pick over that talent. Ohio State is the only big boy, but the MAC D1 colleges like Bowling Green, Toledo, Ohio U, Miami, Kent and Akron, plus D1-AA Youngstown State that pulls alot of Ohio kids. There is also a few NAIA schools in Mount’s backyard (Malone and Walsh) that give partial schollies too. So while Ohio has a lot more depth in the high schools than Wisc, I think it balances out by the high number of scholarship colleges.
I don’t see a football advantage in the open rosters in the Ohio schools. Yes, they have more kids to select starters from, but the odds of pulling a stud from the extra 100 kids is pretty slim. The advantage of open rosters is getting extra students thru the admissions office from a pure $ basis. Plus trying to manage that many kids in practice is a nightmare.
Some actually consider the huge roster size as a deterent to some kids becuase they’re scared off by the depth. It’s hard to stick it out when you’re 15th on the depth chart. That depth runs a lot of very good kids out of the program after 1 year. Case in point is the stud MLB (Sickmeier) from Capital last year that came to MUC but was buried on the freshman depth chart and transfered closer to home at Cap. Or the Stark County Player of the Year a few years ago from tradition rich Massillon Perry (Eric Heinzer) who couldn’t crack the freshmen lineup and transfered to Malone. Both of those kids would have been very good players at MUC, but the depth above them as freshmen scared them off.
September 6th, 2006 at 10:12 am
Yikes. Sorry the above post was so long!
September 6th, 2006 at 3:27 pm
HScoach,
I thought the post was very informative despite the length, LOL! First, you are correct regarding the fact that there are no D1-AA or D-2 schools in Wisconsin. Only choices are Madison or the D-3 sub-system. Secondly, you are also correct that it is a very long season and many factors will play out before two contenders reach the Stagg Bowl. You are also correct that it is VERY hard to repeat a 10-0 season in the WIAC. But, you loose me when that is the reason you list UWW at #3 behind Rowan. It will not be necessary for UWW to go undefeated in the WIAC, simply that they win the Conference Championship to earn an automatic berth in the playoffs. LAX won it in 2003 with a 6-1 conference record and in 2004 with a 5-2 conference record. Now, going undefeated IS necessary to hold their #2 seed which will greatly benefit their playoff run if they get that far.
September 6th, 2006 at 4:01 pm
Mount Union’s tuition (including room and board) is somewhere around $25,000 a year, not $10k.
September 6th, 2006 at 5:27 pm
WIACwatcher: You hit the exact reason I have Rowan ahead of http://WWW. I’m banking on WWW not being able to finish 10-0, which means they probably travel for the Semi-Finals, probably to Rowan or MUC. And honestly, I think Rowan is every bit as good as MUC and WWW with a stud QB. The Profs had a very fast and nasty defense last year, just no passing threat as well as being on their 3rd or 4th TB when they played MUC. Defensively, Rowan was the best defense Mount saw last year, Capital was 2nd and Whitewater 3rd.
I’m also curious to see how WWW plays this season with elevated expectations (and the target on their chests out West). It’s alot harder to stay at the top than it is to get there. Will the WWW staff and players have the same hunger as 2005? Will it be more? Or less? It’s easy to say that it will be more, but it’s often human nature to look at the success of the past and predict more success in the future based solely on “a year older is a year better”. It’s not always that easy. Especially for a team that burst onto the scene from relative obscurity. I have the same concerns with Wesley this year. Will someone sneak up on WWW like they did to Linfield last year?
September 6th, 2006 at 6:00 pm
I am not aware of any D1 transfers at Mount at present or in the recent memory. It is certainly not the source for the success of the program as has been elluded to. The overwhelming number of players have waited their turn coming up through the ranks. As mentioned earlier Garcon is D3 transfer. His story was well documented before last season. The competition for students is fierce because of all the choices in Ohio/Pa alone so you would have to ask the 119 freshman who came in, “Why Mount?” You still have to have the confidence in your ability to earn PT. Mount does not cut players as long as they come to practice and abide by the rules.
Mount does offer a rich tradition that would be attractive to many student athletes but I would say a 219 player roster is every bit as intimidating as one that is only 100. I would have to turn to someone in the WIAC to get the answer for the 100 player limit since it is not one that is imposed by anyone but their own conference as I understand it.
I even read about a transfer “from Mount Union College” in the Carthage preseason column so you might as well pencil them in for the Stagg Bowl now too.
September 6th, 2006 at 6:24 pm
HSCoach,
Whitewater didn’t sneek up on Linfield….The ‘Cats knew full in advance that WW was going to be the toughest team they have played up to that point of the 05 season and that proved to be correct. Sneeking up is more what the Cobbers did and having a lead at half vs. Linfield. Didn’t think that would happen at all.
However, I agree w/ the point in let’s see how Whitewater plays as the hunted this year. My guess is that they are going to play very well.
September 6th, 2006 at 6:57 pm
I pulled the Mount Union tuition number off the Mount website, as I did all the other numbers. It’s certainly possible that that was one of many numbers, or perhaps a pre-room and board number, but that’s where I got it from.
September 6th, 2006 at 7:55 pm
I’M STUCK PAYING $33,000 FOR MY SON TO PLAY AT CAL LU. MOUNT UNION SOUNDS LIKE A BARGAIN, EXCEPT, THE YEAR ROUND SUNSHINE IN CALIFORNIA MAKES UP FOR IT.
September 6th, 2006 at 9:16 pm
Rowan over UWW I have heard it all now. Hopefully the high school team you coach has a ton of talent, cause they certainly wont be strong in the knowledge of the game. Whitewater goes 10-0 guaranteed, I dont know what will make you believe. Hopefully all of you will be on here October 14th after they pound Lacrosse look for my post.
September 6th, 2006 at 10:10 pm
Knowitall: La Crosse is two words.
September 6th, 2006 at 10:36 pm
La Crosse or Lacrosse which ever one shows up against whitewater can expect 28 point beating!!!! WIAC should let La Crosse play with 13 guys. The could put the extra two guys on Stanley and maybe hold him under 200 yards…..
September 6th, 2006 at 11:21 pm
It IS way too early tosay who will be at the Stagg Bowl on the field. I know that I will be at the Stagg Bowl with brownies for both teams and for the fans that come to Stone Station. We really had a rocking time last year with MUC fans and UW-WW fans. It was a blast. And the year before, it was a grand affair with Charles H and the huge Linfield flag and Roocru and the UMHB crowd!! What I want to see is good football with the fewest amount of injuries so the teams that contend are at their best when the playoffs come. We have the best system of deciding who is at the top. God forbid we have to have a 2 level system: Bowl division and the “what are they calling it now?” the Championship division. Ridiculous. At least as Div I-AA they didn’t seem as much like the ugly stepsisters. That is until everybody saw that disaster of a field that JMU had to play on when they won the national championship 2 seasons ago. Since I didn’t get to see the Stagg Bowl in 2001 being in the hospital, I would love for my team to make it this year. But the 2 that make the trip have to earn it the old fashioned way. They have to win their way through. That’s as it should be. Isn’t it great that it’s football season again. A big hello to allsky7–enjoyed talking to you at Salem last year!!
September 7th, 2006 at 7:51 am
Olinemom,
I enjoyed the conver as well. I did miss out on the brownies though so plan to get to Salem even earlier this year.
You have hit the nail on the head. I realize I have mentioned this before and this is preaching to the choir but D3 does have the best system. Not only on the field but in other areas as well. D3 athletes have to go to class, eat in the same dining hall, and follow the same rules as everyone else. There aren’t many dumb jocks in D3. Pat, since you have so much spare time these days, how about an article on a day in the life of the average D3 athlete?
Good luck to your Eagles. I’m not sure if they will be in Salem, but if I were a gambling man, I’d bet they will be playing football along with their turkey and dressing.
September 7th, 2006 at 8:51 am
VAraider 25,000 is still not 35-40,000. I think D3Keith has a good point overall. There are always exceptions but I think money does play a significant role in the process. When it comes down to it though the Stagg Bowl does not list tutiton and overall gpa next to its participants names. Regardless of difficulty in recruiting to win you must recruit well! Oh yeah, it is harder to get into Union than RPI and also more expensive….just thought I’d get this rivalry going a little early.
September 7th, 2006 at 10:46 am
allsky7, you aren’t kidding about my lack of time. It’s been crazy. In fact, I completely forgot to get us set up with Insiders on the blog this year. That’s exactly what I was hoping the players who blogged for us the past couple years would bring to the site.
September 7th, 2006 at 2:51 pm
I graduated from Mount Union in 1994 and the yearly cost (including room and board) was around $18K a year then. I thought I saw somewhere recently (don’t remember where) that it was pushing $30K now. I’ll try to find it.
September 7th, 2006 at 2:55 pm
It appears that Keith got his data from here:
http://www.muc.edu/admission/international_admission/2006_2007_tuition_and_related_costs
The $10,000 is a PER SEMESTER fee for Tuition only. Room and Board is another $3175 PER SEMESTER. So that turns into $26,350 per year prior to books and other incidentals.
September 7th, 2006 at 3:45 pm
Well,
it was just for a blog post so sloppy reporting is permitted.
Good strategy though, listing the per-semester price surely reduces some of the parental sticker shock.
I had that thought about the Insider yesterday, Pat. Last year it was like people were beating down the door to do it.
September 7th, 2006 at 4:06 pm
That’s Ok Keith, my Mom was living in London a few years ago (her husband was working over there) and they listed the Rents for Apartments (Flats) as weekly rates.
September 7th, 2006 at 6:39 pm
Ok, basic question for the board, if you had to compare Teddy Ginn form OSU, and Pierre Garcon from Mount Union, who would be the better all around player for WR?
September 7th, 2006 at 8:08 pm
You mean who is worth more to their team?
Because I’m gonna go with Ginn otherwise.
September 8th, 2006 at 7:32 am
honestly, I feel that Garcon is a better rout runner and has better hands but not quite as fast as Ginn.I think Ginn is over hyped. Im a buckeye fan dont get me wrong but still overated is overated.Go bucks beat Texas..
September 8th, 2006 at 7:43 pm
I’ll take Garçon. He may be a tad slower but he has great hands , he runs great routes and he gets anything thrown to him. Invaluble to his team.