Final thoughts on Salem
Dec
2006
Bob Berezowitz came up to me after the game and asked when our All-American team came out. When I told him it came out just before the game, he asked, “Did Kleppe make it?”
Hmm, yes, Ryan Kleppe was first team All-American and our Defensive Player of the Year. The Whitewater program had taken the AFCA All-American snub pretty hard, all things considered. Three state school players in the starting 22 for the AFCA (they only name a first team), six in ours.
Thos who talk about coaches reviewing film (by the way, does anyone still use film and a projector these days?) and make superior choices should use this as a guide. Kleppe’s value was far more evident on video or in person than on a stat sheet.
In the end, no All-American team is superior to any of the others. Some are more prestigious. Some involve less politics. Some are so large they aren’t worth the shirt they’re printed on for you to buy.
But in the end, it only seems fitting that Berezowitz was looking out for the best interests of his players.
THE GAME: You may have been to Salem once or twice. Maybe you haven’t been there in a few years. But if you haven’t, and you’re downplaying the experience based on your one or two trips in, you’re missing the boat.
Here’s what Salem has done for the game that you don’t know about:
Some things were done a long time ago, such as adding more lights and press box space. Most people have seen those in action.
However, if you haven’t been to Salem in the past two seasons, you might not realize that the stadium has a new scoreboard and there is now a large video screen stationed behind one of the end zones for the Stagg Bowl.
An elevator was installed last year to expand access to seating for wheelchairs and those who need help getting around.
This year, the locker rooms were completely overhauled with individual lockers installed for players.
Next year, there will be field turf. In fact, the grass may be coming out as we speak — while most wouldn’t commit to it happening, one person close to the field said the process could start as soon as Monday, today.
Here’s what the NCAA has done for the game that you don’t know about:
The home office’s liaison for Division III football, who has taken the moniker “Idiots of the First Magnitude” that was applied by a person posting a comment to the blog, was behind Division III getting the later time slot and the game on ESPN.
Fans realize that there was a video broadcast of the national semifinals last week. Since we promoted it heavily and our voices were involved, we’ve been getting a lot of credit, but in fact, that’s the NCAA’s doing. They paid for the video and got it done. We just did the talking.
There is probably more I don’t know about or have forgotten to mention.
THE LEGACY: With all apologies to Kenyon, it’s time we started talking about Mount Union football in John Wooden-like terms. This dominance of a major sport is approaching UCLA men’s basketball proportions. We should be talking about Larry Kehres in epic terms that transcend the sport of football, and he should be inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame as soon as he’s eligible.
December 18th, 2006 at 4:10 pm
I agree 100%. LK is The Man!
December 18th, 2006 at 4:11 pm
I agree that LK should be in the hof as soon as he is eligible…To continually recruit as well as he has, and keep winning as star players come and go…its something quite remarkable…And he continues to do it with a great deal of class and style…His coaching was major factor in this latest stagg bowl win…the players got the job done, but LK knew what his game plan was, and used those players effectively …all of the MUC coaching staff had a heck of a game…kudos to VK too, as he had that D ready to play…and Matt Campbell for not getting conservative as the game wore on…
December 18th, 2006 at 5:04 pm
It’s hard to argue that LK doesn’t belong in the Hall. These last two years have cemented my opinion of him, as the Raiders’ superior game plans have been enough to defeat (this year, soundly defeat) a UWW team that was at least close to being just as talented as the Raiders.
I’m not sure what the eligibility requirements are, but there’s apparently no rule that says you can’t get in while you’re still coaching.
December 18th, 2006 at 5:08 pm
To answer my own question, according to the Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_Football_Hall_of_Fame) for the College Football Hall of Fame, a coach “must be retired from coaching for at least three years or be at least 70 years old” to be eligible. This explains how Gagliardi made it while still active.
Oddly enough, I couldn’t find this information on the CFHOF website, but perhaps I just missed it.
December 18th, 2006 at 5:13 pm
I guess it will be awhile before LK makes it then. I think he’s about 57, and it doesn’t look like he’s retiring any time soon.
December 18th, 2006 at 5:32 pm
Moving from Salem would be a mistake…..Even with losing we had a great time each year. Luncheon is first class and accomodations are great. If the weather is bad there are many routes you can take to get there. Moving for the sake of moving is ridiculous. Keep it in Salem. A pox on the AFCA and their ridiculous All-American team….D3 has taken over their position of importance…..
December 18th, 2006 at 6:01 pm
Great game! Great coverage — we even got it on HDTV, almost (not quite) as good as being there, which we’ve done three times. Loved the video feeds on the semifinals — thank you D3 and NCAA! Great coaches! Great teams! First class all the way! I live in UW Badger country, and Big Ten games are OK. But I just LOVE D3 and all it stands for. Keep it in Salem, PLEASE! No city has committed so much to our D3 sport chanmpionship scence! As a Mount Union and Whitewater family (mom & dad MUC grads ‘63 and ‘64; son UW-Whitewater grad ‘92), we all enjoyed the game. We couldn’t lose. Oh, and yes, Larry Kehres MUST go into the hof as soon as legally possible. And don’t forget the possibility of Bob B from Whitewater. If they take class, mentoring, quality of human being, and commitment to school and success in football, this guy should be a strong candidate. And further kudos to the ESPN announcers. Not once did they degrade Div3; they had nothing but praise for both teams, both schools, both coaches. Absolutely first class all the way. THANK YOU!!!!!!
December 18th, 2006 at 6:32 pm
kehres is the greatest college football coach of all time. he is one of the greatest coaches, any sport considered, of all time.
December 18th, 2006 at 7:10 pm
My only issue with Salem was the field looked pretty bad with the bare spots. But that issue is apparently right in the crosshairs - so the only reason I see to move it is to perhaps spread it out geographically. And that’s not much to go on - you’d have to maintain the high quality, and at the end of the day … if it ain’t broke …
December 18th, 2006 at 7:12 pm
Larry Kehres is a great coach; switching QB’s in the game and the vision of his staff to see a weakness in punt protection were keys to winning the game.
The Roanoke valley is a wonderful setting for DIII events; small town atmosphere but with a lot of class.
The game did not end the way I wanted to but 95% of the Mount Union/UWW fans were fantastic. The remaining 5% were addressed by the Salem mounted (bikes) police. Again, great event Salem!!
December 18th, 2006 at 7:45 pm
Great to hear you believe that about Larry Kehres and his program Pat. I have been saying for a few years the comparison to kenyon doens’t hold water, taking nothing away from what they have done there, which is simply amazing, if that program wants a good swimmer, really wants him/her, they will get them 9 out of 10 times. You just don’t have the recruiting battle you do in the major sports. Some might say the season is the off season for some of these football coaches.
December 18th, 2006 at 7:52 pm
keep it in Salem. They do an excellent job hosting the game and it’s a nice area to visit, even without the sixty five degree weather.
December 18th, 2006 at 10:16 pm
buddy i dont know about the kernes being the greatest coach of all time…yes he is a great coach dont get me wrong but in my opion john g. is the best coach of all time…there is no coach in history of d3 that can coach that many years and still be sucessfull…he is one of the greatest coaches in d3
December 18th, 2006 at 11:35 pm
Maybe we’ll just have to wait 15-20 years before we can really compare LK and Coach Gagliardi, but I have to agree, LK definitely belongs in the hall of fame. Very classy guy that has shown that he, along with the rest of his coaching staff, can outcoach and outplan pretty much anyone in the country.
This year was my first trip to Salem, and I have to say I was amazed at the atmosphere. Perfect for D3 football. And they are obviously addressing the issues with the field, so I don’t see any reason at all to move it.
From what I hear, I can’t say I agree with RaiderWarhawk about the quality of the announcers, but hey, we were still on ESPN. Just keep moving on up.
December 19th, 2006 at 12:08 am
FYI
If for some reason you didn’t see/record/tevo etc, etc the game it is on tonight and tomorrow morning on ESPNU on cable/satellite. Just happened to see the listing on the guide.
12:00 am Tuesday(midnight) morning and again at 11:00 am.
December 19th, 2006 at 5:15 am
Thanks Raiderguy,
Maybe now I can watch the first three minutes of the game.
December 19th, 2006 at 6:53 am
not taking anything away from any other coach. gagliardi has been great forever, and is absolutely one of the greatest coaches. but no college football coach at any level has ever had a run of sustained excellence the way kehres has. 246-20-3 in 21 years. 223 games over .500 is the equivalent of 16 unbeaten 14-game seasons - and he’s done it in 21 years.
and mount has to be the early favorite for 2007, with so much of the team returning.
December 19th, 2006 at 7:00 am
“THE GAME: You may have been to Salem once or twice. Maybe you haven’t been there in a few years. But if you haven’t, and you’re downplaying the experience based on your one or two trips in, you’re missing the boat.”
I totally concur with Pat on this. I highly recommend anyone that has ever considered making the trip to Salem, to do so. I do realize it is a bit more of a commitment for some due to distance. I assure you, it is worth the trip. Nothing compares to being there in person. The tickets are cheap, you can park within a few hundred yards of the stadium for free without donating 100k to someones program, you don’t have to miss a quarter of the ballgame waiting in line to use the restroom, and there isn’t a bad seat in the house. Not to mention the first class tailgaiting and fellowship with others that are also passionate about D3 football.
Thanks goes to ESPN for helping D3 get the exposure it deserves. Maybe the semi-finals next year?
And kudos to the NCAA if they are doing things to promote D3 that most of us are unaware of. I have one more suggestion…why not take a small amount from the money making machine called D1 football and inject it into improving D3 even more. I doubt seriously D1 would even miss it.
Over 6,000 fans in a 7,000 seat stadium. New field turf this year. Perhaps in a year or two, there will be a need to add a few thousand more seats to Salem Stadium?
December 19th, 2006 at 8:49 am
the kenyon streak is pretty amazing. and i don’t think recruiting is that easy. they get a lot of D1 caliber swimmers who:
a) make the choice that they’d rather be a top dog in D3 than just another swimmer in D1, even with a scholarship, and …
b) have the financial means to dismiss big scholarship offers from those D1 schools and instead pay to attend kenyon.
December 19th, 2006 at 8:59 am
I agree Larry K should be in the college football hall of fame when he is eligible.
BUT does anyone really think Larry K would/could accomplish the same record at the D1 level? I don’t.
December 19th, 2006 at 9:09 am
And the reason I throw it out there is I don’t think it’s cut and dry to compare his accomplishments to those dynasties on the D1 level.
December 19th, 2006 at 9:51 am
pumpkin,
Not sure about that. Sure, there are differences between the D1 and D3 levels but a good coach is a good coach. A good recruiter is a good recruiter. It is tough to stay on top no matter what level you are at. That is probably a question that won’t get answered. I would be shocked if he ever left MU. From MU, (D1 or not) there is only one direction for him to go and that’s south. I’m not talking south to Salem either.
December 19th, 2006 at 10:25 am
LK is not going anywhere. He has been offered at least one D-I job that I know of, and an offensive coordinator job in the NFL. If he was going to leave it would have happened years ago. But for the record, I do not believe there has ever been a dynasty at DI to compare to what MUC has done. No college at any level has won 9 Championships in 14 years. Would he be successful at DI? Hell yes. The guy understands the game, makes great in-game adjustments, and obviously he can recruit. Would he have this same level of success at a D-I? Not bloody likely.
December 19th, 2006 at 10:41 am
allsky7-
I’m not suggesting he leave MU. And I agree with you a good coach/recruiter is a good coach/recruiter, I guess my only point is that I don’t think Larry would go 246-20-3 in 21 years and win 8 national championships in a 11-year span at the D1 or D1-AA level. Because there are more good coaches/recruiters/facilities/scholarships/intangibles to prevent such dynasties from happening in D1. So a Mt Union to UCLA comparison is not a simple comparison.
December 19th, 2006 at 11:09 am
Pumkinhead,
In comparision Jim Tressel is going for his 6th National Championship in 21 years in the BCS Championship game. I’m pretty sure he’s 2nd to LK in that regard in recent history. The 6 in 21 would be quite impressive given that his athletes are scholarship athletes (4 1-AA championships and 2 D1 if the Buckeyes win in January).
December 19th, 2006 at 11:13 am
AUPepBand appreciates the idea of talking about Mount Union in “John Wooden-like terms”. Certainly Coach Kehres’s achievements at the Mount are comparable to what Wooden did at UCLA and when his time comes, LK will be inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame. Likewise, Coach Berezowitz, with a 144-72-4 mark at Whitewater, is both worthy and eligible for the honor.
But before either are inducted, AUPepBand would like to see the induction of an outstanding D3 college football coach who was a classmate of John Wooden at Purdue. Coach Alex Yunevich led little Alfred University to six undefeated seasons and seven one-loss seasons in a coaching career that spanned five decades. Following back-to-back unbeaten seasons in 1955-56, he was honored as small college coach of the nation in 1956 by the Washington Touchdown Club. His unbeaten Saxons in 1971 captured the Lambert Bowl, symbolic of D3 champs in the East, and he was named Small College Coach of the East by the NYS Football Writers. During his 36 seasons at Alfred, he compiled a 177-85-12 record, and in many of those seasons did the team laundry.
In a recent correspondence with AUPepBand, THE Coach John Wooden wrote, “Alex and I were friends at Purdue…we had some classes together and I followed his career at Alfred. He was a class individual and a fine fullback.”
December 19th, 2006 at 11:29 am
Count me as one of the people that think LK is a football genius, but I’m also realistic to understand that he wouldn’t have a 92% winning percentage in D1. There’s no doubt in my mind that he has the football knowledge to win at the D1 level as he’s a great evaluator of talent and a real tactician when it comes to figuring out an opponent.
However I think where the biggest differences between D1 and D3 occurs is in the administration of those programs and on the relative parity amongst the teams. The administration of a bigtime football program is as much a challenge as the coaching. And using Tressel and OSU as the example, even the worst of the Big Ten teams is capable of hanging with OSU if the Buckeyes play sloppy or are not focused as all bigtime D1 schools have bigtime atheletes (ala Illinios this year). Maybe the bad Big Ten team doesn’t have as many great players, but the difference between great to good to average to poor is not that much in D1. But in D3 there are huge differences in talent between the best and worst teams. I’ve seen some bad D3 football teams that I’m sure would get beat by some high school teams. They bad in D3 is REALLY bad. So in that regard, the regular season winning percentage is helped out by facing a few really bad teams that couldn’t beat MUC’s freshmen team.
It isn’t LK’s overall winning percentage that impresses me the most. It’s his great percentage in the playoffs. That’s impressive because it comes against the best D3 has to offer. That to me proves how great a coach and game planner LK is more than his overall winning record.
I also think all this discussion of him moving up now is crazy as he’s already proven by not leaving numerous times that he’s very happy coaching at his alma mater. Also keep in mind the difference in player attitudes between D1 and D3. I can’t imagine it would be as much fun coaching D1 players that are attending class only to stay eligible and waiting for the NFL versus coaching a D3 student athlete that is preparing for life. In that regard, coaching at the D3 level has to be a real treat.
December 19th, 2006 at 11:49 am
Of course he wouldnt win that many at the DI level…DI and DIII football are two completely different games…Youll never be able to really compare the two…but its not just Lk…nobody would win that many in that kind of time frame at the DI football level…what LK has done is build a tradition of excellence that is hard to surpass…like has been said before, star players have come and gone…the LK system is what has produced the years of dominance…the consistent recruiting, the masterful coaching in the big games…to me, he is deserving among the best of all time when it comes to having a vision, building a program, and coming back year after year and competing at the highest level of his chosen league ( DIII for LK)…that takes skill, it takes heart, it takes amazing vision….he is one of the brightest football minds of his generation, this is for sure…
December 19th, 2006 at 11:50 am
“A pox on the AFCA and their ridiculous All-American team….D3 has taken over their position of importance….. ”
Sakman1111…would you have said that if a certain offensive tackle from the Dub would have been named to the AFCA team? Just curious?
Besides Kleppe getting snubbed that is a pretty dang good list of players to represent that All-American list and they only list a first team…it’s not like the AFCA lists out 100 players and tries to sell you gear. There is room for both the AFCA and D3.com’s list to be held in high praise.
December 19th, 2006 at 12:37 pm
I have a question for Pat Coleman…How is it that the Gagliardi Trophy winner, quarterback Josh Brehm of Alma, was not on the d3football.com All-American squad. You claim to be “the best source for Division III football information”, and yet the “Heisman” winner at this level was not even mentioned on your All-American team. This seems even more ludicrous to me than Ryan Kleppe not being named to the AFCA squad (which after seeing him play in person this past Saturday, he is more than deserving of). I just believe an explanation is needed.
December 19th, 2006 at 12:47 pm
Wildcat would have said it anyways and said it before the list came out. D3 makes an effort to see many teams,games,tapes,etc. AFCA’s effort is obvious and speaks for itself. Am I predjudice you bet but I along with many others(players) believe I am right…..and they are most happy to make the D3 team out of all of them……
December 19th, 2006 at 2:19 pm
Good point pumpkin. I do think LK would be successful on the D1 level. 246-20-3 is unbelievable. But as unbelievable as it is, being able to duplicate that on the D1 level is unlikely.
As for the UCLA streak…as amazing as that streak was/is, it was in a different era. The likelyhood of that ever happening again are slim also.
December 19th, 2006 at 2:38 pm
Sakman-
You do realize “The AFCA is the only one chosen exclusively by the men who know the players the best- the coaches themselves.” Not sure how you get any more legitimate than that.
December 19th, 2006 at 2:48 pm
pumkinhead,
Agree 100%. In fact there are many players that d3.com and the AFCA agreed upon.
AFCA All-American and D3.com 1st team A-A:
Offense:
Pierre Garcon WR
Chris Barnette WR
Michael Allen TE
Adam Feit OL
Josh Knox OL
Defense:
Andy Studebaker DL
Adam Haas DL
Jerrell Freeman LB
Steve Teeples DB
AFCA A-A and D3.com All-American (2nd, 3rd, or HM):
Offense:
Brandon Bennett OL (HM)
Andy Collins QB (3rd)
Tom Arcidiacono RB (2nd)
Phil Porta RB (3rd)
Defense:
Jason Trusnik DL (3rd)
Mark Carlisle LB (HM)
Craig Haywood DB (3rd)
Byron Westbrook DB (3rd)
AFCA A-A and not on D3.com A-A team:
Offense:
Chris Teter OL
Rick Drushal OL (Was also named to AP Little A-A team)
Defense:
Matt Lawless LB
Mario Harris DB (Was also named to AP Little A-A team)
….so out of the 22 All-American’s on the AFCA team only 4 were not picked on the D3.com’s teams (1st, 2nd, 3rd, HM). I think the AFCA did just fine in picking their team.
December 19th, 2006 at 3:14 pm
Wildcat
There’s a big difference between being called the best at a position and being called the third or fourth best. It’s all about pride. I would hope that what one group calls the best would at least be considered the fourth best by another group. Honestly, my ownly major beef is that Kleppe was snubbed. He established himself as the best defensive linemen in the country. The rest of the positions that UWW could have had players are a toss up because strong arguments can be made for multiple players at those positions.
December 19th, 2006 at 3:25 pm
Wow- Beaver misses 4 games and still makes D3football.com 1st team AA? That’s impressive……..
December 19th, 2006 at 3:34 pm
There’s a couple of things I would like to comment about:
1. Larry Kehres should be in the HOF now. Screw the rules, the first active coach in the HOF should be Larry Kehres. Mainjack touched on this in the gameday blog regarding the set-up he pulled off. Fooled the entire (D-III) nation into thinking they were one dimensional. That is not only gutsy, but, brilliant.
2. Salem, Salem, Salem. What a great venue and the people could not be any nicer. I don’t think I had even stepped out of the car before I was greeted with a smile and a “if you need anything, just holler”. Plus, the mountains in the background just make the game seem bigger. It took awhile for me to start rooting for my team (sorry, hawks) because I was so busy thinking how cool it would have been to play there.
3. Sakman. I have always enjoyed reading your posts. You are a wild man, clearly passionate about the game. I have one concern tho. I’ve noticed you’ve been letting “you bet” slip into your lingo. As a fellow FIB, that has no place in Chicago, leave that stuff up north in Illlinos State Park…uh, I mean Wisconsin
(much like your son, I am from the chicagoland area and played at UW-W)
Actually, as long as it doesn’t morph into “You betcha”, I’ll let it slide. Just writing it still makes me cringe.
December 19th, 2006 at 3:37 pm
I thought the AFCA list included D2 & D3. Am I wrong about that?
December 19th, 2006 at 3:44 pm
This is my last comment on this……Coaches know players in their area or conferences it’s not like D1 where you can watch them on ESPN each night. All I am saying and will end saying that AFCA used to be the team to make but to many of the players I know in the WIAC D3 has become the team to make because they feel those guys make an effort to know as many players as they can…… Believe me when I say noone was waiting for the AFCA team to come out but they all wanted to know who made the D3 team.My example would be Kleppe—-if he has been left off a team then seriously there is a credibility gap. I will now fade into the off season on this subject……
December 19th, 2006 at 4:03 pm
mainjack, I think you’re thinking of the Little All-American (?) team, which I believe is done by the AP.
December 19th, 2006 at 4:10 pm
Runner,
Agree about Kleppe..I saw the SJU and Wesley games over the web and Kleppe in person at Linfield in 2005. Kid is a flat out stud and should have made the AFCA team this year…the rest I don’t really have an issue with.
Sakman,
I will agree that the D3.com team’s are very prestigious but I do enjoy how elite the AFCA makes their team with no sub teams. The AFCA did miss big this year with Kleppe.
December 19th, 2006 at 4:31 pm
“I have a question for Pat Coleman…How is it that the Gagliardi Trophy winner, quarterback Josh Brehm of Alma, was not on the d3football.com All-American squad.”
Not nominated. This has been beaten to death already.
December 19th, 2006 at 4:37 pm
I think I would be in favor of changing the College Football HOF rules to let Kehres in before retirement/70th birthday.
December 19th, 2006 at 4:38 pm
pumkinhead,
To elaborate on what Sakman said, I’ve always felt that coaches’ polls and AA teams were the LEAST credible. Sure they are the ones who know the players best - their OWN players and players on upcoming opponents. But as busy as they are during the season, why would they know diddly-squat about players they will not be facing? The average (knowledgable) fan (much less (diligent) sportswriters/casters) will know vastly more about the OVERALL range of players than most if not all coaches. It’s just not their job (or in their best interests) to ‘waste’ time knowing anything about players they will not line up against.
December 19th, 2006 at 4:48 pm
Pat,
I totally agree on changing the HoF rules. As a preliminary suggestion, how about after 20 (25?) years as a HC, or 30 (35) years overall in coaching?
(If Tressel could get HoF for 6 titles in 21 years, maybe he’d figure he has done everything he can do and retire, so Michigan can go back to beating OSU like a drum?!)
December 19th, 2006 at 4:59 pm
Or even if it’s more exclusive, like 10 titles gets you in no matter what.
December 19th, 2006 at 5:07 pm
But we like beating those Wolverines.
That was the best game and best atmosphere I’ve ever been in. It was worth the season ticket price and the 900 mile round trip drive on 7 occasions just to attend the OSU-Michigan game this year. A phenomenal experience.
Of course, the rest of the season hasn’t sucked either. It’s been a great year to be a Buckeye!
December 19th, 2006 at 5:50 pm
It was fun listening to the crowd (MUC side obviously) singing to the OSU fight song yelling out OH and hearing the IO resposne on the ESPN D3 national Championship game.
December 19th, 2006 at 6:01 pm
I’ve been a bit surprised that no one has mentioned how LK has adapted his teams over the past 15 years to stay ahead of the curve. In the early 90’s when the west coast offense was first starting to creep into the language, LK embrassed it, and blew people away with his 5 wideouts and wide open passing. back in those days as soon as MUC got anywhere near mid-field, they were going for the bomb. As the 90’s came to a close, and defenses were figuring out the west coast schemes, LK went to a very good running back, a blocking fullback and a tight end. Chuck Moore and Dan Pugh helped remake the Mount union offense, and allowed the passing game to be as successful as it needed to be. Now you have Kmic absolutely carrying the load behind a massive offensive line, with deep threat possibility in Garcon, and two or three other receivers doing damage on short routes……when necessary.
Football is cyclical, but LK has always stayed one step ahead of where the game is going, which is why they have not had many down years (if you can call one loss a down year).
December 19th, 2006 at 6:14 pm
Fire Tressel - Bring back John Cooper!!
December 19th, 2006 at 6:18 pm
Mainjack: Is that Kehres staying ahead of the times or adapting his scheme to fit the available personnel? Either one is impressive but I think the latter might be what’s actually been happening.
December 19th, 2006 at 6:41 pm
Pat
well, when he was the O coodinator in the mid eighties, they were just starting to build some great teams. But when he took on the west coast offense in the early ninties, they really blossomed. I would have to believe that had he wanted great running backs and O lineman that were geared towards run blocking, he could have found them. But he went after pass blockers and speedy receivers instead. As the game started to change, he plugged different types of people into those roles. At least that is my take. But you are right, you always have to adapt to what you have, but in college you get some say in that, vs. high scshool you get what you get.
December 19th, 2006 at 7:16 pm
GBill$: “Screw the rules, the first active coach in the HOF should be Larry Kehres.”
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t John Gagliardi of St. John’s in the HOF and still coaching? I’d think that counts as “active.”
Don’t get me wrong, I think bending the rules for Kehres is at least acceptable, if not a good idea. Just want to clarify that he wouldn’t be the first active coach to be enshrined.
December 19th, 2006 at 8:03 pm
The rules are pretty clear: To be inducted, a coach must either have been retired for three years, or be over 75 if they are still active.
December 19th, 2006 at 8:07 pm
… but there’s absolutely no doubt, he’s an automatic. I wouldn’t mind bending those either.
December 19th, 2006 at 8:09 pm
John Gagliardi is indeed in the HOF. He was inducted this year. And he’s still very much an active coach.
I agree with Pat that LK is more likely adapting his scheme to his personnel. MUC had some great QBs in the 90s, and has had some great RBs this decade. To me, adapting is one sign of a great coach. Always sticking with one system is often a mistake. I know that Gagliardi invented the quadruple-action offense back in the day when he had the personnel to fit it, and won a national title with it. Kehres, similarly, adapts to the strengths of his team. And then he fools everyone by going pass-happy with his running quarterback.
December 19th, 2006 at 8:11 pm
repete,
Only 70. Though Gagliardi, Paterno, and Bowden MIGHT qualify even at 75 - not sure! (If there are other active coaches in the HoF, my apologies.)
December 19th, 2006 at 8:27 pm
LK and john galaradi are the best coaches in d3…they could even be really great in d1…my opion though there really is no comparison….yes LK has won a lot of national championships and such but look at the state of Ohio…there is no D2 schools….if really good players dont make it to ohio state or those other d1 schools…they transfer to mount union…they always get good players and so does st. johns but john galardi is the best…to coach that many years and win all those games and be the winningest coach in history…do i need to say more?
December 19th, 2006 at 9:23 pm
radel,
Longevity doesn’t necessarily equate to “greatest ever”. Bobby Knight is about to become the winningest B-ball coach, and although he is an absolute a**, and a very good coach, I wouldn’t call him the best coach ever. Gags is a class act, and a great coach. Hard to quantify Best Ever. By the way…there are some D2 schools in Ohio.
December 19th, 2006 at 10:06 pm
radelphatjohnnie2,
“LK has won a lot of national championships and such but look at the state of Ohio…there is no D2 schools….if really good players dont make it to ohio state or those other d1 schools…they transfer to mount union…”
ummm…OK then how come Capital, Ohio Northern, John Carroll, etc. haven’t won 9 out of the last 12 titles if there is so many really good players laying around the state of OH?
Gags is a legend but you have to consider LK in a class above everyone else to be able to put together a run like he has.
However, Gags is 1-1 vs LK in the big game….
December 19th, 2006 at 10:36 pm
Say more? Nope, already said enough to let us all know you are uninformed and inaccurate on just about everything you say there. Nice work.
December 19th, 2006 at 11:01 pm
Any chance Mount Union fans could just chill out when someone throws down the old transfer stuff? Perhaps there’s no reason to be an ass about it.
Just my $.02.
December 19th, 2006 at 11:32 pm
i agree with alum….people really do need to chill out….i just said john galardi is a better coach that LK…people can disagree or whatever but just chill out…i never said one word of LK being a bad coach…in my opinion he is the second best coach behind john…LK is a great coach and so is john but john has won the most games in d1-2-3 history…yes there is an agruement about him winning more national championships but in my opinion john is the best coach
December 19th, 2006 at 11:36 pm
yes i was wrong about d2 in ohio but there are only 4 d2 schools in ohio and 3/4 have a losing record
December 19th, 2006 at 11:40 pm
Great venue D3 Football. Being new to D3 football this site has become my bible. Informative and a committed group of people bringing an unbias look at D3. The AFCA lost me with their coaches poll. St Johns ahead of LaCrosse????????? Anyway thanks guys for a great year…..
December 19th, 2006 at 11:49 pm
Radelph, that’s not what got you smacked down. It’s this:
“if really good players dont make it to ohio state or those other d1 schools…they transfer to mount union”
That actually is NOT true. However, I would suggest that many Ohio players who could go walk on and eventually earn scholarships in the state choose to go to Mount Union in the first place.
While that isn’t a particularly big difference, you might want to consider your wording was at fault.
December 19th, 2006 at 11:51 pm
bmac: Welcome aboard.
December 20th, 2006 at 12:08 am
Ric:
What can you say about a Johnnie who can’t spell Gagliardi …. ?
Mr. Ypsi,
Thanks for the correction. I pulled it from an old article by the SJU beat writer. He usually doesn’t miss much, but did this time.
As much as I appreciate all the great coverage of JG, I think it’s fair to say that LK doesn’t get his full due in major media at least in part because there are two great stories to tell in d3. JG’s is a bit more unique, i.e., the the longevity and record win total plotlines. Both are great stories and very deserving, it’s just that d3 coverage is so far off the majors’ radar that few see more than one angle.
And with each title, the MUC/LK story gets harder to ignore. Just guessing, but I’d bet he’s the kind of guy who could care less about this debate.
December 20th, 2006 at 1:12 am
OK, I try not to criticize spelling and might have gone over the line with that shot … but I think the SJU blinders are getting in radel’s way. I’ve got my own pair but sometimes you have to step back.
That’s not to say we couldn’t have a decent debate on LK/JG. Defining “great” is pretty tough. Not sure that we’re at that time and place yet. Might not be until each coach has completed his full body of work. As a classic headline in the New York Times once said “XXX’s intangibles are hard to quantify.”
When or if we do, a long term perspective would help. For instance, you could argue that Gag’s biggest win was over the Prairie View team with NFL greats Otis Taylor and Ken Houston, a HOFer. Arguably a bigger win than anything in MUC’s run. Still that would only be one of many parts of the argument.
A better topic these days might be if MUC, which has already raised the bar so many times in d3, has elevated it again last Saturday?
And where does this team rank and the great ones? I have a feeling that this title might be one that grows in stature over time …
December 20th, 2006 at 1:14 am
Make that … “where does this team rank amid the great ones?”
December 20th, 2006 at 1:29 am
I don’t know … Kehres has gotten a fair shake from a lot of media outlets. I’ve seen the papers in Ohio do real nice stuff with him, and the New York Times has been at the games, etc.
The “Yankees of D3″ moniker really doesn’t help, even though it doesn’t fit because Mount Union, for the most part, is playing on an even playing field, where the Yankees spend their opponents to death.
Point being, there’s no conflict or drama, and you really have to get to know Kehres to get the feel-good angle. I remember being a little intimidated by LK in the early years.
From far away, MUC could be perceived as these titans who just win, win, win. But last season did wonders for me, personally, since I didn’t consider them favorites and they overcame a lot. For the first time, for me, they were endearing.
I just think the story doesn’t sell itself. It takes effort to get to know him and the program. Not saying that doesn’t help with Gagliardi, but the “winning with Nos” and being the all-time wins leader are instant hooks.
But yeah, anytime SI wants to do a take-out on the greatest college football coach that ever lived (at least by winning pct.), I’ll read it.
December 20th, 2006 at 1:32 am
Also,
when you win that much, people think there must be something wrong with your competition. Like “it’s just little ol’ D3 they’re beating up on.”
That’s part of what’s so amazing. They take these teams who are great in their own rights and just beat them. The playing field among elite D3 teams is relatively equal (roster limits & JV programs are one difference) … But size, speed, tradition, confidence … they all have it, but MUC keeps winning the titles.
It’s a tiny little school with limited resources like a lot of the rest of us.
December 20th, 2006 at 7:08 am
LK and john galaradi are the best coaches in d3…they could even be really great in d1…my opion though there really is no comparison….yes LK has won a lot of national championships and such but look at the state of Ohio…there is no D2 schools….if really good players dont make it to ohio state or those other d1 schools…they transfer to mount union…they always get good players and so does st. johns but john galardi is the best…to coach that many years and win all those games and be the winningest coach in history…do i need to say more?
Hey radelphatjohnnie2, just to correct you, there ARE Division II schools in Ohio. Both Ashland University and the University of Findlay are in the Great Lakes Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, the same conference of powerhouse Grand Valley State. Also, Central State University and Tiffin University of the Great Lakes Football Conference. So, indeed, there are Division II options for those who want to play football in the state of Ohio.
December 20th, 2006 at 7:08 am
“LK and john galaradi are the best coaches in d3…they could even be really great in d1…my opion though there really is no comparison….yes LK has won a lot of national championships and such but look at the state of Ohio…there is no D2 schools….if really good players dont make it to ohio state or those other d1 schools…they transfer to mount union…they always get good players and so does st. johns but john galardi is the best…to coach that many years and win all those games and be the winningest coach in history…do i need to say more?”
Hey radelphatjohnnie2, just to correct you, there ARE Division II schools in Ohio. Both Ashland University and the University of Findlay are in the Great Lakes Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, the same conference of powerhouse Grand Valley State. Also, Central State University and Tiffin University of the Great Lakes Football Conference. So, indeed, there are Division II options for those who want to play football in the state of Ohio.
December 20th, 2006 at 7:30 am
Two things here: One…Other than having the utmost respect for what they have accomplished, I am not a Mount Union fan. LK should not have to wait until he is 70 to be inducted into the HOF. I think he is unlikely to retire any time soon so should not have to meet that requirement either. He deserves to be in NOW!! PERIOD!! Change the * * * * rules for induction. He has NINE national championships for Pete’s sake. As for who is the greatest ever….who cares!! Trying to pick the “greatest ever” anything is almost an impossible task. There are usually arguments to support numerous points of view. LK and Gagliardi are both obviously in a fraternity with very few members.
So what does that leave…ah…C… Go to MU. It seems a “no brainer” to me.
The topic of transfers and MU keeps popping up. Based on what I perceive as common knowledge, MU’s success is not based on transfer athletes. Maybe I am missing something but it seems pretty obvious to me. Ohio is one of the top 4 or 5 hot beds of HS football in the country. If I am a blue chip HS player but borderline D1 I can: A) Go to Ohio State and be a blocking dummy. B) Go to another D2 or D3 school and perhaps play right away. C) Go to Mount Union and have an opportunity to win at least one national championship. D) Go to community college and work part time at Wal Mart. To those that choose A…I think momma must have dropped you on your head when you were a baby. B…your ego is probably so big that MU doesn’t want or need you. D…. just allsky7 being a smart * * *
December 20th, 2006 at 7:39 am
RE: MTU getting all the Ohio State Cast off players…
There are 6 MAC schools in Ohio that take 2nd tier D1 talent (Miami, OH; Toledo; Bowling Green; Ohio U; Kent State; and Akron). Cincinnatti is there also. Dayton and Youngstown State are IAA. The aforementioned 4 teams in DII (Ashland, Tiffin, Findlay, and I forget the other). As well 20 other D3 Football schools in OH. Also some NAIA in Malone and Walsh.
There are reasons that MTU gets the players and it is not because they are the only other choice besides the D1 schools.
They are Tradition and Excellence.
December 20th, 2006 at 7:43 am
the ohio state or mount theory just doesn’t fly - ohio has a ton of options for high school football players - you have OSU, of course. you have cincinnati, dayton, miami, ohio u., bowling green, toledo, kent, akron, youngstown state, plus all D2 schools, plus all the D3 schools, and there are a lot of them. and i know i’ve forgotten some schools.
December 20th, 2006 at 8:11 am
I un……..
December 20th, 2006 at 8:41 am
Ohio State was used just for example purposes. OSU, BG, YS, etc. It doesn’t matter. These schools still attract players that are at a higher level for the most part than D3. They are going to get their’s. The Garcon’s of the world are the exception rather than the rule. I don’t consider him a borderline player. He is legit D1. There is enough HS talent in Ohio and there are enough blue chip players that MU has a pretty darn good selection left after the MAC’s, I-AA’s get their players.
I do agree that excellence and tradition are part of the equation also.
December 20th, 2006 at 9:23 am
I realize that this is not always a black and white issue where a kid chooses to go. There are other factors. EG: Proximity to home (a biggie), where Dad and Uncle Bob played ball, cost, school degree offerings, etc. But I do think that the numbers game is a part of it. IMHO
December 20th, 2006 at 1:23 pm
keith,
pretty much agree on the coverage. the MUC/LK story certainly isn’t as easy to get your hands around.
guess a better way to make my point — especially at a time when “It’s a Wonderful Life” is back on TV is … if JG had not been born, LK would be THE iconic figure in small college FB. He’s just doing this amazing job at the time of another amazing figure.
December 20th, 2006 at 3:13 pm
I see that the showboating is poo poo’d, but there are those of us who don’t appreciate it.
There is something to be said about the word “team” or “we” and players who catch the ball are well advised to remember the rest of the team and the role of each one in the successes or failures in a game.
We need to look beyond the obvious in order to acknowledge the skills of each team member.
I’m not objective about Kleppe, but I have to say that he seems to have been “snubbed” as one of you said.
Congratulations to UWW for their on field and off field manner. This can only (in my opinion) come from the coaching.
December 20th, 2006 at 6:17 pm
Cheese58,
While the “dive” catch has taken some heat if you watch the replay of the game there was a defensive back in position to push Garcon out of bounds before he scored. Who knows what would have happened if he didn’t score. It was a spectacular play but it is used by many to accomplish the goal of scoring without being considered a showboat. I will agree Pierre does have a touch of “me” in “team” but there is me in team. If you watch him off the ball he is one of the best blocking receivers you are going to find and that is all about helping the rest of the players on the field. Remember a certain 95 yd play last year???? It was Pierre that escorted and blocked the entire length of the field for Kmic and Pierre started on the oposite side of the field. Not many receivers do that IMO.
December 20th, 2006 at 6:59 pm
My take on the “dive” is that it was not a showboat effort. Maybe the outcome of the game didn’t depend on his scoring the touchdown, but I don’t think that’s the point. When you have the chance to score, you do what you can to make it happen.
December 20th, 2006 at 7:11 pm
I found nothing wrong with the “dive”. My complaints with Pierre was when he was jawing at the official over a blown spot, and his showboating in the endzone after the first TD run. But as someone pointed out earlier, Stanley did his own share of trash talking and showboating, but when you don’t find the endzone during the game, it seriously cuts down the amount of chances you have to toot your own horn. I know it’s all part of the game these days, but it doesn’t mean I have to like it.
December 20th, 2006 at 7:14 pm
i love how on this site that i can say one thing and people just have a spas…thats really funny…gag’s is the best coach in d3
December 20th, 2006 at 7:18 pm
radel
we’ll compromise……he’s the best coach over 70 years of age in D3. :o)
December 20th, 2006 at 8:06 pm
radel,
You’re not saying something. You’re trying to state something as fact. SJU has a great coach. He has the most longevity of any coach in college history and has a tremendous record.
Me, I’ll take LK anyday with his astronomical win percentage and 9 and counting national titles.
December 20th, 2006 at 9:30 pm
mainjack,
Agreed on the real hot dog taunting showboat stuff. It won’t end until officials eject the players or the coaches bench them. Don’t hold your breath.
December 21st, 2006 at 1:32 am
Kitchen,
The deal with the grass, from the same source as the future of said grass, is that the last two years they have been battling a disease at the complex at both the diamond and Salem Stadium and that was a major push to replacing it with field turf.
As a photographer that has ’survived’ warm, cold, wet, and frozen games at the Stagg Bowl, I will welcome the change with open arms. The stadium does get a lot of use, but I feel that the field will be in better condition in 25 years than the HHH Metrodome is in Minneapolis after just 18 months. But that’s apples to oranges, the Dome is used 3.5 days/week year round. Dave, Scott and I shot 5 games there for the UMAC this past October and my knees were aching much like they did when there was astroturf in there after just two quarters.
Anywho, that’s more insider knowledge about the field conditions at Stagg. Thankfully, it’s over.
December 21st, 2006 at 1:47 am
Well,
I said on the broadcast (I think) that Garcon looked like he could have scored scooting inside the pylon, but took his time and leapt over the player instead. Nobody on the D3 team agreed with me.
I don’t know if that’s showboating anyway. Pat Cummings thought the defender had a clear shot at his legs and it was the most efficient way to score, it just looked so bad b/c Pierre has mad ups. I didn’t see it so much as a bad thing as it was just Garcon being that dominant that he could have chosen either way to score.
The thing about ejecting players or coaches getting involved with the showboating is you don’t know where to draw the line. There’s certain stuff that’s just outrageous, and that should be handled, but you don’t want to give the officials any more judgement calls than they already have. If we have to err on one side or the other, I say let the kids play.
Coaches spend so much time trying to get these guys to bring out all of that emotion in their games; it’s foreign for them to try to turn around and snuff it.
As long as you do the little things, be respectful to teammates and opponents more often than not, I don’t mind a little celebration.
I do hate when a guy does what he’s supposed to do (make a 1-yard tackle for loss or an 11-yard catch for first down) and makes a big freakin’ scene.
I also hate when a team is getting pummeled and the guy celebrates the TD. Hey, spike it real quick or give the ball to the ref. You ain’t good though, you’re down by 21!
These aren’t really beefs I have with the D3 game though.
I think people watching don’t realize how fast this all happens; that’s why I really couldn’t beef with Garcon’s leap even if I thought he was showboating. You just can’t imagine how fast it all happens out on the field and how quickly you have to react. You will make some wrong decisions … maybe some of those decisions will make you look like a showboat.
That’s why it’s funny to me when they penalize a DB for hitting too hard … it’s like how the heck is supposed to slow up?
December 21st, 2006 at 2:43 am
Watching it in live action, I actually thought Garcon could have made a quick cut to the left and walked into the endzone. But he was going full speed and had to make a choice and he scored.
December 21st, 2006 at 7:34 am
Pierre did nothing wrong he didnt do anything that someone else wouldnt have done given the circumstances of the game. I mean it was the stagg bowl on espn, how exciting is that let the guy play his game and watch it and enjoy it instead of finding ways to critisize him.Watch the OSU Florida game you will see showboating. But know one will Bit?h about that….Go Buckeyes……..
December 21st, 2006 at 8:29 am
who cares…garcon didnt showboat…if he did so what…what are they gonna do fine him!?…when your so into the game and your competitive you will do a little showboating…but if he did so what just relax people
December 21st, 2006 at 9:43 am
Just to clarify, I didn’t think he showboated. I can’t imagine a player running towards the corner thinking “I could cut left and walk in, but I think I’d rather fly over this dude.” I believe it was just an instinct to leap into the endzone.
December 21st, 2006 at 11:10 am
I am old school and hate to see all the showboating in todays game. I didn’t see Garcon’s leap as showboating at all. I thought the defender was there and possibly had a chance to make a play. My guess is instinct told Garcon the defender would go low…so he went high. No biggie. It was just that…instinct. He didn’t have time to think about it.
December 21st, 2006 at 12:00 pm
Just to clarify . . . I didn’t mention specific players as far as showboating goes. I just prefer not to see it. Showboating makes me think of the recent commercial about a spelling bee winner.
Play the game well and it will be noticed.
Also, I’m not referring to running on the tips of your toes or diving to make a play. As someone said things happen so fast that the players have to do what they have to do.
Raiderguy: I DO remember the play you mentioned and I agree with what you said 100%!!
These are just personal opinions and I respect that others may feel differently.
December 21st, 2006 at 7:06 pm
For what it is worth, I thought Garcon showboated alot more in last years game. The leap was fine with me. I agree that the defender may have suceeded in taking out his legs or forcing him out inches before the goal line so it is hard to fault him for going over. The kid has a hell of a verticle leap!!
December 21st, 2006 at 7:07 pm
opps, vertical.