ATN Podcast: Wild weekend, wild pairings
Nov
2007
Well, we survived another Selection Sunday, though the day has barely ended as I write this portion of the site. Four hours of sleep, up at 7:15, off to ESPNU, analyze the bracket, check graphics and pronunciations, go over highlights, write a script, go through a dress rehearsal and do the show. Then tape a segment for ESPNews (did anyone ever see that?) and another for online.
Thankfully, the podcast was pretty simple, too, only requiring one edit to piece two parts together.
It’s our look at the bracket, the key points in each game, etc. How many points can Capital give up and still win? Do Keith McMillan and I both like the way this was put together? Why Eau Claire instead of Whitworth?
It wasn’t quite a record day trafficwise but with the brackets being revealed so early in the morning, we didn’t expect it. But it was a great day in Division III football, both Saturday and Sunday. Hear the highlights in our ATN podcast.
November 12th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
First - I think it is great to see a match up of Ithaca and MUC. Outside of MUC I am not aware of too many other programs that have the history to it that IC does.
Second - MUC’s avg score per game is 54-2. Outside of a scud missile hitting the IC campus there is no way that MUC will hang that on IC, or any playoff team from E8 for that matter. Unlike the Purple Patsies Conference (OAC) that tends to just grab ankles and let MUC have their way - East Region teams (E8 and Liberty League) come to the field to win. It is going to be a fight every step of the way.
Third - The two highest seeds in the east have the toughest first round draws. Hobart is on a 7 game winning streak at Fisher, and Ithaca has been smoking every team it has faced since its loss at Fisher. Two hot teams, its the playoffs - you never know.
Fourth - I have long wondered how MUC would do if it had to face teams on a weekly basis from the East. Now, after MUC’s scout team like schedule of ‘07, I get a chance to find out.
Fifth and final - Curry will rarely have a better chance to get out of the first round than its match up vs. Hartwick.
Go Fisher . . . .
November 12th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
Yeah. You may be singing a different tune about Mount Union in a few weeks. And I’m not sure that your allusions are appropriate.
November 12th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
The only way my tune about MUC will change is if they lose. I think MUC is the best and at the same question the level of comp they play week in and week out. - especially in 2007. By playing in the East for potentially the next 3 weeks we will all have a better idea of what the OAC is all about.
I respect IC, RPI, and Hobart. I don’t know much about Jersey and I am biased toward Fisher. The only two teams in the East that I think are questionable is Curry and Hartwick until proven otherwise.
As I said, there is no way MUC walks through the East as if its the OAC - that’s my emotion, my gut, and my prediction. Obviously we’ll know for sure very, very soon. If I’m wrong, which I doubt right now, then I”ll admit it.
When are you willing to admit you don’t care for Fisher?
November 12th, 2007 at 7:52 pm
“Purple Patsies Conference (OAC)” ???? Are you kidding me. Okay so my screename gives it away, but have you ever SEEN Mount Union. I see them twice a year. Once when they wipe the table with us during the regular season, then in the playoffs when they give us a run.
I would not be so harsh on the OAC. I will say, admittedly, that Cap is not the Capital of the past (ie - Rocky Pentello and company), plus this year they are playing all 2nd and 3rd stringers on Offense…but I would argue with a clear conscience that the OAC’s top 3 or 4 would finish #1 in nearly every other conference. Mount Union, Capital, Ohio Northern, and John Carrol (or BW) would do it The competition is unruly, and every single team in the OAC is scarred with an automatic 1 loss to Mount Union. Last 2 years…who did it come down to in the Semi’s….OAC (Cap vs. MUC). I’ll give respect anywhere it is due, and to watch OAC football for nearly 7 years, the OAC has earned some.
November 12th, 2007 at 7:55 pm
SJF Fan,
So if Mount cleans the clock of the East, your tune about the MUC and the OAC won’t change? As someone born and raised in Alliance and a student at Ohio Northern (until I ran out of money!) this OAC bashing is really getting tedious. While Mount Union had a seemingly easy year in the OAC, it doesn’t make the conference a bunch of pushovers that wouldn’t stand up elsewhere. Maybe the OAC is full of comparable teams with one great team? I guess if the only chink in Mount’s armor you can ascertain is an allegedly “weak” conference you must feel you have to run with it.
I doubt LK and Mount have been thinking that there would be any cakewalks through the playoffs for them. Only a fool would take an opponent for granted - or believe that one conference is that much better than another without any direct comparison by multiple teams playing each other.
Be very careful assuming that Fisher will be playing against anyone other than their first round opponent… Having said that, I hope that SJF gets to visit Alliance again for that aforementioned clock cleaning.
November 12th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
Have I seen MUC? - Yes. - National Semi’s in ‘06. SB on ESPN 11 times.
Last year the Semi featured an E8 team and MUC.
Cap - on the level of comp for ‘07, we’ll find out over the next three weeks.
Your reply to me, further proves my point. You say you and the rest of the PPC’s enter each year conceding a loss. In the East, nothing is conceded. Every team shows up to win week in and week out, and every win is hard fought. That is what I am counting on (hoping for) for this year’s East bracket. When MUC is faced with a team, for consecutive weeks that is willing to hit back, what will happen? How will they respond?
Ithaca, Hobart, RPI, Fisher - is no joke. The only way we can know for sure about Capital and the rest of the PPC’s is if your respective school man’s up and schedules us. MUC did (home and home with Fisher for ‘08 and ‘09). Why not the others?
November 12th, 2007 at 8:27 pm
Oh boy … yeah, this is gonna get ugly.
November 12th, 2007 at 8:36 pm
“Purple Patsies League”?????
Yikes.
Obviously the Easterners’ attempts at talking trash are about as skilled as their teams are at reaching the Stagg.
Paging Ric ….
Interesting … all these folks say they don’t know much about d3 outside of the East and then they expound endlessly on how powerful it is.
Yeah, other than Ithaca and its peer, Mount Union, the rest of d3 is traditionless dogmeat.
Right … paging Augie fans …
November 12th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
Repete:
Please don’t assume all people east of the Ohio share the same sentiments as certain posters on this page.
November 12th, 2007 at 8:52 pm
Repete - the numbers back it up. Until the PPC shows it can put a fight, it is a fact until proven otherwise..
For you to say that Ithaca and MUC are the only D3 schools that have tradition is a tad on the insulting side. 17 Stagg’s between the two is pretty tough to beat though, that’s why I’m looking forward to the match up.
November 12th, 2007 at 8:54 pm
Well, after reading these comments, I guess I need to get some points if I want to bet on Mt U. Nice job on the podcast, guys. Gonna be an interesting tourney.
November 12th, 2007 at 9:00 pm
GM,
You’re right. I’m presently east of Ohio (despite an allegiance elsewhere).
And the RPI crowd is quite creative …
But this East Region chest-puffing kind of reminds me of the old New Yorker cover.
http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/newyorker2.JPG
November 12th, 2007 at 9:16 pm
“Repete - the numbers back it up. Until the PPC shows it can put a fight, it is a fact until proven otherwise..”
Didn’t John Carroll win the East a few years back?
“For you to say that Ithaca and MUC are the only D3 schools that have tradition is a tad on the insulting side.”
That was clearly sarcastic — as the “yeah” and “right” comment indicated. It was a response to your post on the playoff threat: “Outside of MUC is there another program with as much of a winning tradition to it than IC?”
That’s — frankly — a fairly dumb question.
Augustana had a pretty good run.
1983 Augustana (Ill.) 21-17 Union (N.Y.)
1984 Augustana (Ill.) 21-12 Central
1985 Augustana (Ill.) 20-7 Ithaca
1986 Augustana (Ill.) 31-3 Salisbury State
St. John’s has two d3 and two other small college (NAIA) titles. It’s 546-220-24 (.706) over 97 seasons. It’s 38-16 in postseason. It has a coach you might have heard of.
Linfield hasn’t had a losing season since the 1950s.
November 12th, 2007 at 9:36 pm
ithaca is going to get blown out….do you here me …..blown out
November 12th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
repete - clearly you know more than me about Augustana Ill. Saying that I was not aware of, versus your interpretation of that there aren’t any, programs with as much tradition shows you have a flare for the dramatic side.
Any indication as to how the perenial #2 in the PPC that is worth a #2 will do vs. UWW?
November 12th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
mt union 42 ithaca 0
November 12th, 2007 at 9:41 pm
Mille125 - thanks for the amazing analysis. Did we here you? or did we hear you?
We’ll obviously know in a few days. My position is that MUC is in store for more than they’ve been accustomed to thus far in’07. There’s no way we’ll be seeing a continuation of the 53 pt. diff. in the games for MUC (in the East Region anyway)
November 12th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
you are right sjf. i did not give ithaca enough respect
mt union 35 ithaca 0
November 12th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
then later mt union 49 sjf 0
November 12th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
there is nothing to analyze in a blowout…..move on to more interesting games like in the south region….all will be competitive
November 12th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
Yeah, it might be more like when Rowan “the Beast of the East” went out to see Linfield not long ago. ….
If Capital was healthy, it would be a great game against UWW, which has not been as dominating this year in the WIAC (which is the only league better than the OAC).
As for drama, go over to the OAC board and mention the PPC … and you’ll find plenty.
November 12th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
repete -
man you are one big disappointment. already you are back peddling. first you’re all about the greatness of PPC (ex-MUC) then you start making excuses for why Capital is going to get the snot kicked out of it. have some courage of your convictions!
As for the board for the PPC - most of the people there appear to be more level headed when it comes to sports (Mid West Sensibilities perhaps) than elsewhere. I am fairly certain if they are willing to look at the reality of the situation that they would have to agree . . OAC = PPC.
November 12th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
No worries Pat, at least from me, on this getting ugly.
My apologies SJF for coming across harsh. I am OAC crazy, there is no doubt. I’d give them 3 bids a year, auto…honestly.
But listen, I HATE Mount Union. It takes a beating on one’s spirit to get rip-smacked every year. In Capital’s defense, the past 2 years they only beat us by a FG (although the “only beat us by…” is a TERRIBLE mentality).
Furthermore, while I preach OAC to my death…I think Cap just squeaked in this year. They are good. But they are O is truly in shambles. Great D…but, I’m not sure I’d pick them against UWW this year. So there is my “OAC is the best…oh yeah, Cap might lose.” Moronic. Oh well, they ARE a program. Just unfortunate injuries this year. I’ll root for ‘em still. Go Cap!
November 12th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
Mille125:
Last year there was another turkey from MUC making wild predictions about the MUC and SJF game and the score. I took him on based on his terms, and although Fisher did not win, he lost in his double prediction.
The worst part of it was that he didn’t even have the honor to take his lumps and hang the SJFC sticker on his vehicle as agreed on.
I suggest you not be so dam arrogant.
Through this whole season, I was looking for MUC to play someone who can compete with them. The teams MUC played had a combined win/lost record of 41 and 59 with only 4 of the 10 teams with a winning record. There were four teams with at least 7 losses for the season.
MUC may be good, but their competition for the most part weren’t.
You have laid your line in the sand (35-0) lets see just how good you are…..
November 12th, 2007 at 10:22 pm
Cap -
Frankly, I have no first hand knowledge of how the OAC did in years prior to ‘04. The team I root for started its playoff run in ‘03 in a Regional Bowl, then NCAA in ‘04, ‘06, and now ‘07. Prior to that, because my team was not in the mix, I did not follow it. Maybe it was home to the top 3 teams in all of D3 in the past - I don’t know.
What I do know, is that when a team hasn’t lost in conference in years, and that the margin of victory during those years appears to be swelling - something is up (especially in ‘07) no??
I guess I am surprised at how lowly the East is thought of. Knowing the teams within the Region, I just can’t see them getting steam rolled like everyone else.
So, let’s see how Capital does vs. UWW, and let’s see how the East shakes out. Then I”ll either be eating much crow, or perhaps a little I told you so.
Time will tell - Good luck.
92
November 12th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
Watch out for SJU in the Central bracket.
November 12th, 2007 at 10:27 pm
SJF –
I’m not back pedaling on the OAC — I’m a West Region guy. WIAC is better.
November 12th, 2007 at 10:40 pm
D3 Fan - for what its worth - I agree.
I think SJU and Wash/Jeff are two teams that should have high expectations heading into the tourn.
November 12th, 2007 at 11:01 pm
Please vote on the poll on the Empire 8 Message board in the East Region.
The Poll is about the margin of victory of the MUC-Ithaca game.
November 12th, 2007 at 11:14 pm
In a 10-team conference, playing 9 conference games, simple arithmetic analysis will predict that 4 teams will have at least 6 losses in conference in a simple season.
That will occur without any ties at the bottom.
Let’s assume that Team Z comes in last in the 10-team conference at 0-9 in the conference.
Teams W, X, and Y all split 1-1 and beat Team Z. They lose the rest of the games in conference. That means that they will have a conference record of 2-7. It is impossible to have fewer losses at the bottom of the standings, unless MUC goes 9-0 and everyone else goes 4-5, all losing seasons.
Voila! That is why you have so many teams with poor records in the big conferences. It is simple arithmetic.
I also maintain that that is a fatal flaw in the OWP and OOWP in a sport such as football, where the “n” in these calculations is 10 or less.
The seven-team conferences can pad their OWP’s and OOWP’s with teams from other conferences that will have better records than OAC members. OAC members, who are mathematically doomed to conference losses greater than 6 or 7, will unfortunately drag down the MUC’s and the Capital’s, who must play all 9 conference games, (and the SJU’s and the UMHB’s and the Trinity’s and the IIAC’s who must play 8 conference games to a lesser degree.)
It is simple arithmetic!
November 12th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
fair enough wjbtms….what is your prediction of the score….i didnt see one in your post….and for what it is worth, I am neither a Mt Union nor an OAC fan …I am however a realist……lets hear your projected score…to be honest I am rooting for Ithaca ….but that is all a fair tale land….in the real world they will be flattened……….
November 13th, 2007 at 12:06 am
interestingly enough, MUC and SJF have a home and home series starting next year…..
November 13th, 2007 at 9:24 am
repete - don’t forget, ‘if’ Capital was healthy, they probably wouldn’t be seeded so low and probably wouldn’t be playing Whitewater in the first round; also, how much more dominating do the Warhawks have to be for you to gain a little more of your respect? Afterall, they just ran the table for the 3rd straight year -haven’t lost a conference game since the last game of the ‘04 season to La Crosse. The WIAC is more than just tough - in any given year, including this year, a middle of the road WIAC team would arguably contend for many of the conference titles across the country. UWW has had 1 close conference game (La Crosse in ‘05) in the last three seasons.
November 13th, 2007 at 9:54 am
I think this year’s La Crosse game was fairly close as well — close to being a blowout loss, even.
November 13th, 2007 at 11:04 am
Pat - after Capital gets smoked by UWW, and the East gets done with MUC - why not let me author a Dose article?
November 13th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
nathanshin,
Get a little thicker skin. How did I disrespect them?
UWW has plenty of respect from me. I’ve stuck up for the WIAC as the best conference (which is easy) and I’ve speculated about the prospects of two West teams in the semis.
All I said was was that they weren’t as dominating as they have been. Not having Kleppe or Stanley is a huge part of that. Winning without them us a testament to the strength of the program, but those two players were special. Last year UWW put up 40 points on 4 conference foes, how many times has that happened this year? Didn’t UWLX give them a pretty good tussle this year?
UWW could get even more respect if they could beat Mount Union. It doesn’t even have to be 24-6 ….
November 13th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
Will there be any TV coverage for any of the games??
November 13th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
Hey SJF Fan the scud missile is on its way coming from Alliance…
November 13th, 2007 at 1:37 pm
oh the big scud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 13th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
It is nice to finally see someone from the east standing up and defending our football teams in this manner. We here in the east tend to take a beating from others. With our last Stagg bowl coming in 91′ we are hungry! I hope that Ithaca can make a good showing. SJF did last year giving MUC a soild game and we are due here for a big showing from an eastern region that is truly competitive… with itself. Honestly I think SJF is way off base and has not made much sense throughout this entire discussion. Yet somewhere deep down in my heart I hope he is right, I hope he can come back to this board on Sunday and let his thoughts rip with actual results to support them. All I have to say is: SJF take baby steps you have your hands full with a tough Hobart team this is on fire! Second, Sorry man MUC 45-IC 3
November 13th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
dlippiel - I am well aware that SJF will be in for a fight vs. Hobart. In my initial post, I made mention that Hobart and IC are the two hottest teams right now in the East, and oddly enough, the top two seeds, have the two toughest draws.
I think that the winner of the SJF/Hobart game is for the East Region crown, because the next round will be Curry or Wick.
Further, as I have said all along - my comments are conjecture until we know for show. And when we do know, I’ll see how my comments faired against reality.
I have known several people that have been through the IC program. They all had one thing in common - serious gamers, with no quit in them - ever. And in ‘07, that’s just not something MUC has seen thus far.
November 13th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
I am a huge East fan… I mean, come on… We’re talking about Mt. Union here… They deserve more respect than what they are getting now… I’ll be rooting for Ithaca, but being a realist you’d have to anticipate the Bombers gettin’ Bombed…
Go Hobart!!!
November 13th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Like I said SJF I hope you are right I am rooting for Ithaca all the way. I just don’t believe MUC deserves anything but the utmost respect period. Anyway I will be in Cortland rooting on my young Dutchmen. Anyone going out there?
November 13th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
I sure wish all the winners the best in the play off but I hate to say this but the scoring that shows on Mounts stats are not anyway reflective of their scoring power.
I wish I would have kept count of how may times they kicked a field goal to keep the score down or during the fourth quarter when the ball carrier stepped out of bounds or risk getting his butt kicked by the coach. I know their stats don’t show it but the coach just doesn’t run up scores.
Honestly I don’t think that the first team O unit ever played in the fourth quarter.
They are a great team and I swear I’ve watched them for many, many years and I still can’t believe how they score and put the game out of reach so easily.
When I watch football I try to defense the teams and this year I gave up trying to figure out the Raiders. Most teams would give anything for Mounts first quarter scoring.
Wait until you people see the up coming JVs, Mount is gaining a lot of press and finding players from out of state to complement the Ohio and Pennsylvania players.
Sometimes I wonder how those big schools that passed over these guys feel.
November 13th, 2007 at 4:43 pm
“I have known several people that have been through the IC program. They all had one thing in common - serious gamers, with no quit in them - ever. And in ‘07, that’s just not something MUC has seen thus far.” — SJF Fan
That last statement is a slap in the face of every OAC player, at the very least.
dlippiel has already suggested a 42-point loss. According to the WikiLLPPedia, that is a “Double Monkey-Stomp”. Thru the first 102 votes on the E8 Poll, 30 voters think that it will be a “Double Monkey-Stomp”. Twenty-six think that Ithaca will win the game.
Being a “gamer” and being a “gamer in a ‘Double Monkey-Stomp’” are not mutually exclusive. However, we may get to see it on Saturday, tho’.
The intrigue builds.
November 13th, 2007 at 5:12 pm
How is what I say any more of a slap in the face than what MUC has been slapping every PPC player in the face with?
PPC’s have already admitted they concede the game prior to the start of every season - does that sound like heart to you?
I am sick of all the apoligist for losing mentality - losing is not an acceptable expectation!
We’ll find out for sure on Saturday. Capital vs. UWW, and MUC vs. the East.
You are all acting like W**res for MUC. - Pathetic
November 13th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
SJF fan, are you done yet? and can we please have the board back…Pat, Keith, is this the kind of board it going to be for the next few weeks? Name calling and abusive posts? SJF Fan…right back at ya…the only thing pathetic is your over sized ego …there is no way Fisher beats Mount Union if they should meet…and if they do, we’ll all gather back here to induct Fisher in as an honorary member of your so called PPC…the best part will be when SJF does get beat, the East does get run over, and we have to listen to more of your excuses…and of course UWW is expected to take Cap…Cap isnt the same team from last year, and UWW has shown they are ready for another deep run….please either start posting something intelligent or stop wasting space on the site…
November 13th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
There is no doubt that MUC is the best team in D3. However, I think the one weakness MUC has is game conditioning. The starters are not accustomed to having to play a full 4 quarters. I know last season against SJF, the defense looked really tired by the end of the game. They were still able to get the job done, but I believe that if Ithaca is able to keep the game close on Saturday, they will have a great chance of winning the game. How many games this year did the MUC starters play beyond the 2nd quarter??
November 13th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
Just until Mount Union treats an East Region playoff opponent the way it treated the OAC.
November 13th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
But that having been said, I don’t think we need the rabble rouser posting comments here anymore. Let’s move on.
November 13th, 2007 at 9:27 pm
Pat… Gotta love this time of the year - What a great season in d3 Football… You looked pretty savvy on ESPNU too - Good job, we were well represented!
OK, here we go… The East is strong, and now even stronger with the Mount comin’ in… The question is, “Can anybody (including the New England Patriots) beat Larry and his boys, especially in Alliance??? Not likely… You told me last year (several times) that MUC would roll over Fisher, well, you were partially correct on that one… My God, are they sound… Nate runs for over 300 yards, Lang has 21 tackles, and they beat us 26 - 14 (We played them better than UWW, right?) They really didn’t roll us though, did they? Kehres said after that game, “That every team that had played Mount Union during the year had feared them, but not Fisher; they respected us, but they didn’t fear us”!
He hit that right on the head, and anyone who doesn’t have just the utmost respect for Mount Union simply doesn’t understand this game…
Ithaca (we know them well) has “EARNED” this shot; sitting 2 - 2 after the first four games, and ending 8 - 2 should tell the d3 world something… People will talk, and talk, and talk, but the truth of the matter is - they will play MUC with even more intensity than they showed even in their last six games… I’ll bet Larry and his boys aren’t taking the Bombers lightly… Certainly, and if I were a betting man, I would take Mount Union - but it won’t be a walk in the park, and the d3 world can take that to the bank! It’s a closer game than people think…
Now what about Hobat @ Fisher… Hobart sitting 1 - 2, and finished 8 - 2, while Fisher has one “down” game @ Oneonta, otherwise a perfect season… This will be a game for sure, but Fisher wins this one going away; the number 5 team in the nation and playing @ home… Certainly I’m biased toward the Cardinals, but I know them too well… They’ll play their hearts out, and will leave nothing on the field… Their goal is to play in December, and I don’t think they’ll fall short…
My picks… MUC 47 - Ithaca 23
SJFC 38 - Hobart 17
Hartwick 48 - Curry 45
RPI 35 - New Jersey 24
Anyone else got their picks ready…
November 13th, 2007 at 10:34 pm
SJF Fan,
Are you a former player, alumni, or parent? Just curious..
November 13th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
SJF Card: That was last year. Was Mount Union defeating opponents this way last year? Did St. John Fisher lose to Hartwick last year?
November 13th, 2007 at 10:46 pm
sure SJF… because referring to anyone or any team in DIII as a whore (sorry everyone, not my word…its his word) is a perfect example of legitimate debate…giving an entire conference a demeaning nickname because it makes you feel better about your chances…is that also supposed to be legitimate? and im pretty sure there was reference to a poster being “one big disappointment”…Thats what Im talking about SJF…your view is discounted because its laced with personal remarks and arrogance….and im also sure that all my references are also “listed above”…..Was the OAC that competitive this year? No…Do they deserve your ridicule when not one team in your big bad powerful East has shown they can take down the 07 Raiders yet? No…
If Pat is “rooting” at all, which I dont think he is, but if so….it might just be because the East’s demise might shut you up and get you off his board for a day or two…
scfj81, that is a great point…if you are not used to playing whistle to whistle, what will you feel like in the 4th QTR when you’re tired, and the game is on the line…Ive said on other posts that my concern is what could happen in a close game…the last few weeks have been blowouts and when a game gets close…composure is the key….Mount has shown in the past they could handle it…but that doesnt mean its a given now…and I agree with you that endurance could also be a major factor…
November 13th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
As a UWW guy, I have to give props to Mt. Union. Whether they have a weaker schedule or not, they play incredible football in the games that count. In both championship games, they played almost mistake free football. Throw in the talent of Garcon, who I feel is the most dangerous guy on the field, and they seem almost unstoppable. I hope UWW gets another shot at them, but I’m not sure anyone has the firepower to beat them.
November 13th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
It’s not that opposing views are discouraged. It’s just that we prefer they be rooted in reality.
If you want to kid yourself, more power to you. But Pat and I have an obligation to the people on this board, especially the many readers who lurk but don’t post and/or the people who are new to d3 and don’t know how to make sense of everything that is said, to offer counter-arguments that people can put some stock in.
November 13th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
Oh, oops … I see we’ve moved past SJF Fan in the time my screen had been idle. Ah well, since this was already typed:
Some people know you’re just running your mouth trying to start something, but other people really have no idea, and it’s only fair we help let them know what’s what. If you want your points to be respected, try giving us some real reasons why the East is strong and the OAC is weak. I’m pretty sure in the 52 comments I have not yet read, someone in the know has attempted to set you straight.
You can take all the cheap shots you want at CUA (that’s the abbreviation, BTW) … I don’t think you’re really hitting Pat where it hurts.
As long as your commentary is rooted in “East Region teams (E8 and Liberty League) come to the field to win” there will be others here to offer stronger counter points.
Not trying to knock you bruh, that’s just the God-to-honest truth.
What do you suppose teams form other regions come to do, catch a whiff of the hot dog stand?
November 13th, 2007 at 11:35 pm
To all that post on here:
As a father of a D3 player (yes we are annually in the playoffs….with you again this year), a reminder to all: these young men read your posts.
We have a responsibility to upgrade our approach. This is not “your fathers D1 site”. This is where the love of the game for our beloved football is at its purest form. Debate early and often what may happen over the next 5 weeks. I emplore you to rise above the common man and exude the reasons we love D3Football……unconditional love of the game. Raise your game and keep it positive.
Your biggest fan……….Ex-D1 player
November 13th, 2007 at 11:35 pm
I also think we have an obligation to be impartial, to an extent. Pat and I have long held the belief that we are also human and prone to having opinions. (Weird, ain’t it?) The board and the blog comments are the place for that, and if you are respectful, you will always get treated with respect. Very rarely if ever one of us or anyone on staff lashes out at someone unprovoked … but at times board discussions get pretty involved.
Participating in the discussions is what makes the web experience different than other forms of media. We’re not sitting behind a desk telling you the news … we are all constantly interacting, and whether those interactions are respectful and genuine, as preferred, or occasionally blunt or off-base, they usually lead to the overall education of the Division III football fan. We as fans are amazingly more knowledgeable about our sport and its workings since the site debuted in 1999. I’ve been on both sides, and I can say that for a certainty.
I can assure you that when D3football.com staff is out on assignment or on the phone with a coach, they are acting in as professional and impartial a manner as possible. But we also respect that our interaction with fans is a very integral vehicle to furthering the overall discussion of Division III football and satisfying those fans that we serve.
Some people think those things go without saying, probably Pat included. I don’t have a problem spelling it out for whoever wants to know.
November 14th, 2007 at 7:28 am
Well to say something about Mount D-fense getting tired. There second and third teams still only gave up 21 points and alot of the time it was still against the opposing teams 1 st string offense. So if someone gets tired they just put someone else in and dont loose anything.
November 14th, 2007 at 8:31 am
There has been so much noise about who is better, the East or the OAC conference. If, like someone mentioned in an earlier comment, we must be realistic , then all we can say about the East and the OAC is that they have not played each other this season. Because MUC has won consistently for the last three to four years does not earn them the championship this year. Yes they are undefeated in their division, everyone knows that. But keeping it real, they have not scored a point against an East team yet.
Will an East team knock off MUC, I really don’t know. I believe if the East teams decide to set up a gauntlet for MUC players and hit harder every play than they have for the full season, one of the East teams will beat MUC. Intimidation has much to do with success in this game and MUC fans are working hard at that here. I personally don’t buy it. I strongly believe the East teams can provide the intimidation on the field where it counts. Football is all about teamwork. Well, East gents, you generally are on opposite sides of the field, but we have a giant to kill and it will start with the first pebble shot….
I encourage each East team to play as hard as is possible against the giant and somewhere, somehow, MUC will not make it through the semi-finals.
Now, MUC fans and players, please don’t be arrogant about my challenge to the East, you just may end up looking from the outside in.
Good Luck and Good Health to all of the teams.
I believe Ithaca will hold Mount Union to under 35 points, and might even get a break or two and win. I know Ithaca will go into the game with a plan to win, not just to show up. If the rest of the country is just planning to show up to the Mount Union, game, don’t bother, you can stay home and save a lot of money.
Last time I checked my geographical location, I was in the US and I still believe it stands for good competition and a winning attitude. Lets all see what happens, who has the most fight and real interest in winning.
November 14th, 2007 at 10:21 am
No way Hobart gets held under 20 pts by SJF. The tale of the tape shows Fisher to have stronger defense statistics:
Hobart has allowed an avg of 22.5 ppg vs. SJF’s 12.8 ppg. Still, SJF’s D does allow about the same amount of total yds a game as Hobart’s (about a 35 yd/gm differential).
If SJF has a weakness, I think it’s their secondary (allowing 180.7 yd/gm going up against a Hobart offense that avgs 272.6 yds/passing). They also thrive off of INTs (23 picks on the year), but Andy Strom has only thrown 2 all season.
This game will be high scoring and probably decided by a TD or less.
Look at SJF and Hobart’s common opponents and results:
Rochester
Hobart beat 30-14
SJF beat 37-21
Alfred
Hobart beat 44-22
SJF beat 39-18
This is going to be a great 1st round match up. My bet is the winner of this game will likely advance to the regional final.
November 14th, 2007 at 10:38 am
Isn’t the OAC typical of any conference? Half good teams and half not so good teams? Week 5 poll shows 5 OAC teams in the Top 25. Doesn’t sound like a “patsie” conference to me. MUC’s D is just that good, that everyone else looks that bad.
November 14th, 2007 at 11:11 am
Purplephyco - great point - I was just talking to a buddy yesterday and he brought that up (the fact that MUC’s 2nd team can come in and also get the job done - therefore endurance is not that big of a problem). However, I think the level of competition MUC will be facing in the playoffs is much better than what they saw during the regular season. As a result, their 1st team D will have to be on the field for a much longer time than they are used to and this could be a problem for MUC. I think in order for Ithaca to beat MUC they must be able to run the ball. This will keep the MUC offense off the field and tire out their defense. It’s what SJFC did last year and it almost worked!
My MUC Bracket first round predicitions:
MUC 31 Ithaca 21
RPI 24 New Jersey 10
Hartwick 42 Curry 17
SJFC 38 Hobart 17
November 14th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
I just don’t see how people can keep saying that OAC is so bad. I am a huge East fan but to keep knocking the OAC is just not making sense. It is a solid conference. To make a statement like “I think the level of competition MUC is facing in the playoffs is much better that what they saw during th regular season,” is quite insulting. Obviously the level of comp should be somewhat better becuase it is the playoffs. In the playoffs you don’t play the bottom tier of any conference. To imply that the Eastern teams (remember I love the east) are that much better than what MUC is used to is simply false. I’ll tell you this, Not one team in the OAC would lose to a team that lost to WNEC! So lets show some respect boys. sjfc81 I will be rooting for whomever makes the east regional final but I would be very careful with SJF 38 Hobart 17. Hobart is very hot and I don’t see them losing by 21 if they lose at all. I just haven’t seen a lot of well thought out or factually based comments on this board. I know if my team is going up against a powerhouse and I feel my team is up to the task I have no reason to disrespect the the opponent. I let my team do the talking. It is going to be a great weekend of football! Go Statesmen, Bombers, Engineers (I have never ever rooted for RPI in my life!) and Hartwick!
November 14th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
Lets set things straight on the OAC. First of all every year is different….different teams different players etc…but to knock the strength of the OAC is absurd. As a MUC fan I understand that I am partial to my team but look at what the conference as a whole has done since the playoffs were expanded and more than 1 conference team has made the playoffs. The other OAC teams are 11-1 in the playoffs when playing someone other than MUC. And a few years back John Carroll was put in the east region and won the east only to lose to MUC in the Semi-Finals. I think that this should be proof enough that the OAC is no patsy. And as a MUC fan I’ll be the first to say that we always have a bullseye on us. We get everyones best when we play them, when the playoffs start you better be ready to play anyone or you can be beat you. But the 2nd OAC teams being 11-1 against the rest of the field……..that’s a pretty good winning pct. in my book.
November 14th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
I for one will be very interested to see how the East fares against MUC. In general I felt that the East would have a “down year” this season since a lot of great players graduated from the prior year. The fact that the East play-off races were all so close means either two things:
1) Teams are better and there’s parity or
2) the East isn’t as good as it was last season
Guess we’ll find out real soon……
November 14th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
SJFC81… I like your picks… Although I do think that “The Mount” will score more than 31, and Curry more than 17, but I like your choices… It’s going to be a great football weekend… Better buckle your seat belts… It doesn’t get much better than this…
November 14th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
dlippiel - I never said the OAC is so bad. From what I have been reading on the Daily Dose and Post Patterns, the OAC did not have a great year (2007) due to injuries. As a result, I think that Ithaca, Fisher, RPI and Hobart are better than the majority of the teams in the OAC THIS YEAR!! So I don’t find my remarks at all insulting. And didn’t you say that the level of competition will be “somewhat” better because it is the playoffs? Is it a FACT that the playoffs mean the competition will be “somewhat” better? What exactly does “somewhat” mean?
Also, I made a few PREDICTIONS. Why can’t Fisher beat Hobart 38-17? The SJFC offense is averaging about 39 ppg and the defense keeps on getting better and better (I think they are giving up about 12 ppg). So I don’t see my prediction to be that horrible. And all you based your, I guess factual, statement on, is that Hobart is hot! How hot? What exactly does “hot” mean? I need the facts!
Everyone who places a comment on the Daily Dose is sharing their opinion; the majority of which are not based on fact. It is impossible to base all of your opinions on fact. But, when it comes to the playoffs, do the regular season stats/records (FACTS) really matter anyways? Everyone is 0-0 and any team can win on any given Saturday!
November 14th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
Thanks SJFCard - I also look forward to a great football weekend!
November 14th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
Great job on the team capsules! Being a Fisher fan, you are absolutely correct about their offensive line - they have struggled at times. However, the o-line did suffer some major injuries during the regular season - but everyone is back and healthy for the second consecutive week. I just hope they can play like they did against Ithaca!
November 14th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
Facts meaning Hobar has won 7 in a row and that =hot. “Somewhat” meaning the competition you play in the playoffs tends to be stronger than what you play in the regular season. Oh but somewhat does not mean if MUC had to play Curry that they would be playing tougher competition than in the OAC. See your tone is cocky without any reason to be cocky. An eastern team has not won the stagg bow since 91′ Our best showing in recent memory was last year by SJF, a great game but one in which MUC ran all over SJF. So even as an east fan I can truly say we have not proven anything yet, hence we should not be knocking a conference or making a statement that the OAC is weaker than the east when the OAC has accomplished much more than the east in recent memory. Do you see whatI am saying? I will also disagree with you about what most share on this blog. Most share well thought out ideas that they can back up with examples. Here like this, I am saying that in the OAC not one of their teams would ever lose to a team like WNEC period. Yet WNEC beat a Hartwick team that won the easts supposed toughest conference. Come on now, give me some examples to show me that you feel the east is going to be a tougher road than the OAC. Not ust having SJF in your screenname
November 14th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
What did I miss… The Fisher O-Line, omg… Ok… Our starting line is once again healthy and ready to go… Some games we had to call “lets say some audibles” due to injuries, but we did OK… Injuries are part of the game; everyone has to limp through these… I said to Buddy Sims at Springfield, we only have one starter out there on the O-Line, he said “We’re OK”, and he was right… Now beat Springfield on the road while missing some “key” players and you know you’re doing something right… The up side is that we have more depth… We’re big (avg 300 lbs), plenty quick, smart, but the greatest asset, is that we have only one new guy on the line, so we’ve been there, and believe me, that counts!
November 14th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
Hartwick, like Fisher, had a “down” game… It happens to most teams… Just doesn’t seem to ever happen to MUC…
November 14th, 2007 at 6:39 pm
Today will be my final day of posting until the week 1 games are done. At that point all of us will have the benefit of comparing our speculations vs. the facts.
So just to recap, here are my feelings heading into week 1 of playoffs:
1 Top 2 seeds in East have the two toughest draws. IC and Hobart are both hot teams heading into the tourney.
2 Looking forward to see how or if MUC’s results will differ vs. the East Region as compared to what it has experienced in the OAC in ‘07 (in conference avg. score per game was 51.8 to 1.8)
3 I think the East is a much greater region than most outside of the area give them credit for and that there is no way these programs will have an avg 50 pt average spread in the final results.
My bracket:
MUC wins by 3
RPI wins by 10
Hartwick and Curry break NCAA scoring record and
SJF vs. Hobart - toss up.
92
November 14th, 2007 at 7:02 pm
D3 Keith -
You say as long as comments are rooted in reality you’ll be treated fine, otherwise those in the know …..
When discussing games that have not yet been played - none of the comments are rooted in reality - It is all speculation and conjecture until after the 4th quarter ends. Then, one can go back after the fact and compare the reality vs. the speculation, its part of the fun.
Further, when you disagree with people, your comments turn to a very condescending structure..
As far as your quest for “real” evidence that would lead reasonable minded people to wonder if a conference is having an off year would be when one team, in one season beats every other team in that same conference by an average of 51 to 1 in 9 conference games.
I think its a fair question to pose - and as I have said to all those that have commented on my inquiry - I’ll know for sure within 3 weeks.
November 14th, 2007 at 7:30 pm
Just a what if. What happens if two regions that are matched up for the semi’s are won by two # two seeds or two # three seeds or any matched seeds Who is the home team? The region with the higher seed?
November 14th, 2007 at 7:31 pm
You know what? I can’t wait to see what transends this weekend. I really do hope in my heart that the east stands strong and proves itself against MUC during this East Regional bracket. It is just so hard to believe that results will be different regarding MUC. Having not seen them play yet this year and hearing all the discussion that they are possibly even better this year than in the past it is a tough see them going down. The east is filled with teams that play hard every game. Yet is it O.K. to think other regions teams don’t do the same when they prepare to play the best team in the nation? I don’t think so. What better opportunity does a team have for instant gratification and success? I can’t imagine any team not taking a game with MUC as the game of their life, the opportunity of a life tiime. So maybe we can all step away, think about our opinions, facts, examples etc and keep them in our head and just lok forward to what we have coming. A flippin great weekend of playoff football. Let’s stop putting other teams, regions etc down and let them all settle it on the field. I guess that wouldn’t be fun for us football fans but it is nice to think of.
November 14th, 2007 at 7:46 pm
PA_Wesleyan,
It goes to the highest seeded Bracket if there is a tie.
“In the national semifinals, the highest-seeded team hosts. However, if the teams advancing from each bracket have the same seed, then the team from the higher-seeded bracket, (Mount Union bracket and UW-Whitewater bracket) hosts.”
November 15th, 2007 at 12:02 am
Wow some fireworks in here! After reading through this mess, I think the SJF fans need a little reality check, because what MUC has done (and is doing) is unprecedented. They are a friggin dynasty. You have to go knock them off the mountain. You can’t talk them off. And you haven’t been good enough long enough to beat your chest like you’re their rival. Win a title or five — preferably in a row — and then come talk. Until then, just shut up and play. All this chatter, but they can simply point to the scoreboard. And that is the best comeback in sports.
Now, getting to my beloved Statesmen. This will be a good game. Maybe SJF comes out on top. Hope not. I think it will be close. But the prediction of 17 points makes me laugh. Hobart is averaging 38.3 point per game, 42.4 in the last 7, and has a low output of 27. See you on Saturday!
November 15th, 2007 at 8:59 am
“one more thing”
res ipsa loquitur - heck of name btw.
I agree with you. I think Hobart vs. SJF is a very good first round matchup. It is going to be a hard fought game and think its a toss up.
As for MUC - yes they are dynasty, I am just glad we will be able to see first hand how they are going fair for multiple weeks in the East.
November 15th, 2007 at 10:05 am
I am excited to hav UWW in the north. It may prove that we exchanged the 800 lb. gorilla for the 500 lb gorilla, but either way we get to measure up against a national powerhouse. I saw UWW play last year against St Johns and Wesley so I have a pretty good idea what they bring to the party. I certainly would have preferred seeing a healthy Capital with a healthy Wheaton in the bracket but we have a few good teams that will give us a measuring stick as to how competitive the North is against West teams. I like Wabash’s chances to make it the the regional final game. I am also intrigued by North Central at Franklin. Being a CCIW guy I believe NCC will prevail against a first timer. NCC is playing its bell football right now and their young qb was just named OPOY in the conference with their starting MLB a runner up for DPOY. They play a funky 3.3.5 defense that is tough to prepare for in 1 week so it could make things interesting.
Overall I think the committee did a great service to D3 in shaking up the brackets in this way. It will provide fodder for the whole offseason and into next fall when we get to do it again!
November 15th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
SJF Fan,
Thanks for the amazing analysis. Will we see how MUC will fair … or fare?
November 15th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
RALPH TURNER -
IT SEEMS TO ONLY MAKE SENSE THAT OWP’S ARE ABOUT EQUAL AMONG ALL CONFERENCES BECAUSE THERE HAS TO BE A LOSER FOR EVERY WINNER.
I’M NOT SURE HOW MUCH “PADDING” THE TEAMS FROM SMALLER CONFERENCES DO. THOSE NON-CONFERENCE AGREEMENTS ARE DONE A NUMBER OF YEARS IN ADVANCE WITH NO WAY OF KNOWING, FOR INSTANCE, THAT A ROWAN OR A SPRINGFIELD WOULD FALL OFF THE MAP THIS YEAR AND THAT A COLLEGE OF NEW JERSEY WOULD BE AT THE TOP OF THEIR CONFERENCE. (EVEN D3FOOTBALL.COM DIDN’T SEE ANY OF THAT COMING!)
November 15th, 2007 at 5:37 pm
RES ISPA LOQUITUR… I don’t think I need a reality check; I do prettty well seeing the field. You’re right; some folks are just talking and barking. But remember, I was the guy who said, “can anybody, including the New England Patriots, beat MUC in Alliance”; Not Likely… And, anyone who thinks different, is living somewhere in never-never land…
My focus, is not on Mount Union (although I’ll be rooting for Ithaca from a distance - which means absolutely nothing), but rather on the task at hand, and that is Hobart… We play a pretty tough team, and you guys have had a reamarkable season, i.e., you’re last three games… Beating a tough Alfred at home, and Union, and the U of R on the road shows you’re tough… There’s no doubt about you’re game… But, there’s not doubt about Fisher either… It’ll be a good game… Fisher has given up 40 points in the last 5 games, which include Brockport, Springfield and Alfred… Not too shabby… So in 40 degree weather (maybe) and the wind and (oh-no) snow, scorring may be down just a little… Dress warm, and enjoy - see you on Saturday…
November 15th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
The MIAA is going to get their 1st playoff victory sat. and it’s going to be a big one.
November 16th, 2007 at 1:15 am
I highly doubt that.
November 16th, 2007 at 11:30 am
So what are you saying wjbtms , final score 3-35. Sounds about right but what wins football games are the breaks. Things like Mount turning over the ball on the first play from scrimmage then the very next play Mount scoops up a loose ball and scores. Five minutes into the game and Mount leads buy 24 points. I’ve watched it in person and much the same a few other times this year. When you read how Mount Union seems to score from anyplace on the field this is a fact.
In my estimation, they are a balanced team and to beat them you can’t turn over the ball and you must keep their offense on the bench and manage the clock. The real question is what will you do if you win the coin toss.
It’s around NOON right now Friday and it 32 with light snow flurries and in case you didn’t know Mount Union is the highest spot in Alliance and there is always a crazy wind from the west.
If I was a fan coming from the east I’d make sure to allow for a side trip to near by Canton and view the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
See how pro football was born and formed in Canton Ohio.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:19 pm
DRAS:
What I am saying is that Mount Union is not going to knock the ball loose very often with Ithaca. I am also saying I believe in Ithaca as being a solid team. If the weather adds to the drama, anybody can win. I believe you will see Ithaca score at least 14 points. I also believe you are way off base to think MU will have 24 points in 5 minutes. Also Ithaca can make its own breaks too. I guess you have not been to Ithaca, They are also at a point which is close to the highest point in the area with an open field and similar winds at times. Sounds pretty even to me. I just checked the temperature in Ithaca, it is 33.9, again very close.
What I am saying is that if Ithaca doesn’t win, Mount Union will know they played a football game and each game they play in the East will add a bit more pain…. My belief is that because MU is in the East Division, they may not make it out. If they read their fans descriptions of the team, they just might start believing they cannot be defeated, they may even believe that now. That is precisely when you get your tail handed to you…..
Lets all have lots of fun watching and see what happens.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:21 pm
wjbtms: I think you need to read more closely. What he said was a few breaks go MUC’s way and it could be 24 points in five minutes.
November 19th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
Every coach will tell their fans how this years team is better then last years. From a football fan in Alliance I’ve seen some fantastic football teams at Mount Union and I’m saying that this years version is the best that I’ve seen in a lot of years.
Advice, well for one try to keep their offense on the bench and pray that their defense doesn’t score on you.
FOR dlippiel go to mount unions web site and watch films of their nine national championships games and remember I believe that this years team is the best I ever watched.