ATN Podcast: Time to head to Salem
10
Dec
2007
Dec
2007
Fifteen weeks and 1,100 games have led to this, Stagg Bowl XXXV, between Mount Union and UW-Whitewater.
If you’re new to Division III, these teams have met in the Stagg Bowl each of the previous two years as well. How have things changed since? What can UW-Whitewater do differently in 2007 than it did in 2006 and 2005? What will the Stagg Bowl be like with a healthy Pierre Garcon and Justin Beaver?
Get ready for the Stagg Bowl with Keith McMillan and Pat Coleman’s take in this week’s Around the Nation podcast.
December 10th, 2007 at 9:13 am
Stagg Bowl prediction,
Both teams look to have solid defenses. However, Mount is going to game plan against two guys, Beaver and Jones. A mobile QB is always tough to defend. UWW on the other hand is going to have to try and stop a Mount team with at least 5 serious threats on the offense. Mount has way to many weapons on the offensive side of the ball, and nobody will run on their defense consistantly enough to win a game. Mount Union 40-17 over the Warhawks.
December 10th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
Just a question: I know this is off topic for the podcast but when viewing the pictures from the UMHB/UWW game I noticed there did not seem to be a ton of people in attendance, or at least as many as I would figure would attend a semi-final game. Are there ususally more people at UWW games (especially semi-finals)? Was it due to the weather that the stands did not seem full? Just curious? Man I would have loved to have been at that game and if I lived anywhere even remotely close I would have gone. I am just interested in the number of people that follow D3 in other areas of the country.
December 10th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
dlippiel-
normally you would see more at the game. they did not have enough staff to clean the snow off the bleachers and walkways. not sure of the attendance numbers but it seemed like more than the wabash game. hope this helps.
December 10th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
Its time for the flood gates to open and the Raider bashing to commence…Alot of people who dont know much about d3 football had a lot to say last year, and Im hoping its not the same this year! Ive been to the past two head to head matchups of these teams, and plan to attend this one! Obviously, Im pulling for my Raiders, but I understand how hard it is to beat a team 3 years in a row, let a lone a team the quality of UW-Whitewater! I know Beavers going to bring it, and every other member of that team who has made the trip to Salem the past two years and come home empty handed will do the same as well! Im pretty sure this one will be the best of all, and I am very much looking forward to it! See you in Salem!
December 10th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
First off R24aider, there is no way, let me repeat for you NO WAY that Mount Union will score 40 points. This in my opinion will be the lowest scoring of the three games. These are the two best defenses in the nation and I doubt that anyone will score even 28. By most accounts this is Mount’s best team out of the last three years and by my account this is Whitewater’s best team also. I have no problem with Mount Union being favored, they are the kings. Their closest game was a 24 point win, but I think that might present a problem. Whitewater has played a ton of close games this year and remain confident when they fall behind, even late in the game. If Whitewater takes say a touchdown lead into the third quarter will Mount Union be able to respond to a situation that they haven’t been in the whole year? I think that Whitewater really needs to breakdown the Ithica game, that’s the only game where the Purple Raiders have shown a weakness and gameplan around that. I have no problem with saying that the Warhawks are better than the Bombers. I’ll have more later, but dlippiel yes there for some reason haven’t been as many people attending this years playoffs for Whitewater. It might be the fact that the weather is so bad becuase I can’t think of another explination. They drew 7,000 in one game this year. Later guys!
December 10th, 2007 at 1:17 pm
BiasD3FootballFan
Actually, Mount is #1 in the nation in total offense and in #1 total defense. WWW is not even listed in the top 50 on offense. Saying that Mount and WWW are the two best defenses in the nation is not accurate either. WWW actually ranks 19th in defense.
Your post is far from BIAS as your screen name implies. Please bring me some FACTS before telling me Mount will be lucky to score 28 let alone 40 on http://WWW.
If you think WWW needs to breakdown a “monkey stomp” Ithaca loss in order to find success…good-luck. I believe that was the same logic SJF, NJ and Bethel used.
December 10th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Bias,
I don’t think Mount will put up 40 pts this week either, but I would never say NO Way because of the high octane offense Mount has. They have put some big scores up on some good teams this year, but I know that UWW is another level above those other teams.
The advantage I see for Mount is coaching. I know these teams have seen each other before but Kehres always seems to beable to make the adjustments that the other coaches don’t see. History proves that the more he’s seen a team the bigger the score is. Like I said before, I don’t know if Mount will put up 40 but UWW may find it hard to score on the Mount D.
December 10th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
OU#25,
Good post. I’m suprised to see that UWW is ranked so low in offense with a back like Beaver and a quarterback like Jones. I really thought their defense would have been ranked in the top 5 with the way they have been playing. onumbers can pretty much be thrown out the window for this game though because UWW is going to come in all fired up looking to avenge the last 2 Stagg Bowl loses. Seeing these numbers though makes my point more valid that UWW may find it hard to score on Mount.
December 10th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
I would like to congratulate Justing Beaver for winning the Gagliardi. What a great accomplishment.
December 10th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
The Mount/UWW trinity is this Saturday and I look for this game to be very intense. To say that Mount will be in a potential disadvantage for not playing close games, or will have problems if the starters need to play all 60 minutes, is not valid in my opinion.
I truly believe with the practice regimen and the level of talent Mount has on their roster, a close game will not be a problem. Will it actually be close? Without sounding too much like a homer, I believe Mount will previal with a comfortable margin (14-17 points). Whether they score 40 is certainly debatable but I have seen these guys play all year and they have so many ways to score, it is just hard to stop ALL of them.
I have nothing but respect for UWW and their entire program but Mount is playing at a different level this year. Bethel made the national semi-finals, had a good defense and still gave up 41 points in the FIRST HALF!
The Ithaca game was disappointing to Coach Kehres and yet they won by 24 points. While not overtly admitting as such, the team took Ithaca lightly. Since then, the intensity level has increased as reflected in the following scores. UWW is a better team than the previous teams faced but, Mount will not overlook UWW, will not let up, and will play with the same intensity EVERY play, whether the score is close or not.
Best of luck to both teams. We’ve played the father and the son. Bring on the holy spirit!
December 10th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
BTW, for those of you who will point to 2003, don’t believe for a second that isn’t in Coach K’s mind. I am sure he has been hammering that point of overconfidence in these kids minds and hearts and will continue to do so.
He is great at learning from past mistakes and providing solutions. Look at Mount’s record against teams they have faced a second time. The adjustments made result in more successful results.
December 10th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
As much as I would like to believe that things will be different this time, unless the breaks go substantially UWW’s way, I think it will be very difficult. First of all, I don’t think this is the best of the Warhawks three teams and offensively it is probably the worst. Say what you want about Danny Jones, but I would rather have the Jacobs / Stanley connection anyday. Furthermore, this clearly looks like Mount Union’s best of the three teams.
My feeling is that MUC crushed Bethel, a team that barely beat UW-Eau Claire. We beat Eau Claire by about 25. My guess therefore is that a 15-20 point MUC win would be the result *unless* we get a few turnovers or special teams touchdowns.
Finally, I am so incredibly pleased about Justin Beaver winning the Galiardi Trophy. What a great young man who has had to overcome quite a bit to get where he is today.
December 10th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
Congrats to Justin Beaver for winning the Gagliardi!
As far as the game goes, I think the “X” factor in this one will be Danny Jones. UWW had a less than athletic QB in the previous 2 match-ups who didn’t seem to play very well when pressured. From everything I can find, it seems like UWW and MUC QB’s are mirror images of each other.
The advantage of meeting 3 times in a row in Salem will be an advantage for Whitewater mainly because all the off-the-field intangibles will be for UWW. Revenge is a great motivator! And complacency can be a big downfall.
IMHO, Whitewater was the better team in ‘05, but didn’t handle the spotlight of playing in the Stagg early in the game and mistakenly thought they could go deep on MUC (specifically Stan Watson). It’s understandable why they thought that after seeing Capital burn Watson numerous times, but what they didn’t know was Watson played hurt versus Capital, but was healthy versus UWW. And by the time they adjusted their offensive play calling and settled in, they were down by 14.
The second meeting pitted 2 every evenly matched teams physically, but the MUC advantage was finally unveiling Micheli’s passing abilities. Which was 180 degrees from what UWW had spent the week preparing for. Therefore advantage MUC.
The third meeting? Everything on paper points to MUC being the better team, but the games aren’t played on paper.
One thing that often gets overlooked when analyzing the previous 2 Stagg’s is exactly how tightly those games were played at the line of scrimmage. The ultimate difference in the outcome of both games was a couple critical plays that went in favor of Mount.
In ‘05, the UWW TE’s drop of a sure TD before halftime, Cameron Rose’s INT at the goal line, stuffing Beaver on 4th and goal, then Kmic’s 95 yard TD run.
The big play in ‘06 was the blocked punt returned for a TD that took a 1 score game and blew it open. Beyond that, the difference was UWW kicking FG’s instead of scoring TD’s when they got to the MUC red-zone. MUC scored TD’s, UWW kicked FG’s.
Even though Mount won both games, it’s not like Mount completely dominated Whitewater and it would take a miracle to see a scenario for Whitewater to win. Both previous Staggs could have went to UWW if the couple deciding plays would have been made by the Warhawks instead of the Raiders.
A game where either team is good enough to win? Just the way it should be. I can remember heading to Virginia in 2002 to play the Roy Hampton-less Trinity Tigers knowing that MUC would win easily and it wasn’t that much fun. Same in 1997 with Bill Borchert and Company to play Lycoming. Those games were over before halftime and it really took the edge off.
Honestly, I expect Mount to win Title #10 this weekend, but I don’t think it’s going to be nearly as easy as most people think.
December 10th, 2007 at 3:32 pm
Bias,
I don’t know what UWW team you have been watching this year, but I have been to almost every game the last 3 years and there is NO way that this team is the best of the past 3 years. Don’t get me wrong, this year’s team is very good and I hope that they can pull off the upset on Sat., but there is NO way they are better than the first two teams. Losing the likes of Jacobs, Kleppe, Stanley, Schmitt, Sakallaris, Reuland, Widuch, Jimmy L., etc. are HUGE losses. Two NFL players, a Gagliardi finalist, a two-time WIAC player of the year, and SIX!!!!! All-Americans. Beaver is an unbelievable player, but he can’t do it all by himself.
The 2007 version has a stellar defense, but have did struggle against NCC, a spread team similar to the attack MUC will bring on Sat. But the big difference between the 2007 team vs. the 06 and 05 versions is on offense. UWW does not have many big play threats on the 07 team and the OLine is not playing as well as last years version (losing Sakallaris is a big reason why). Also, Danny Jones is no Justin Jacobs. We all know Jacobs did not play well in the two Stagg Bowls, but you can’t judge a team or a player by one game. And defensively, the loss of Kleppe on the interior DLine will hurt UWW big time on Sat. UWW in 07 has yet to face an OLine and RB like MUC will bring and I sadly think our D will get exposed on Sat.
Don’t get me wrong, I love the Warhawks and will be cheering my throat dry on Sat., but there is NO way that this team is better than 05 or 06.
December 10th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
I would also say that I could definitely see MUC put up 40 on us. I’m just being realistic and Bias never say no way to MUC putting up 40 with Micheli, Kmic, Garcon, and Blanchard.
December 10th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
Forgot to mention…the attendance.
The weather this year has been especially poor. Every playoff game has been played in the cold and snow. Furthermore, as has been mentioned earlier, every game is televised locally over cable in the immediate geographic market. I know many people who have said “I’m just going to watch at home,” mostly because of the weather.
December 10th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
You warhawks can’t fool us Purple Raiders with all this reverse psychology. Thank goodness the Mount players and coaches don’t read this stuff, they might actually believe it. I know UWW wouldn’t be here if they weren’t awfully good. They will bring an A game (although this year it doesn’t seem to be good enough). My prediction of 40 was not to be cocky, I just can’t believe what I see from this group of Kids week in and week out. Defensively, somebody new steps up every week! Offensively, it’s ridiculous, Against TCNJ, Bryson Davis was all over the place. Against Bethel, I don’t even know if he caught a ball (only one example of their weapons). Then there is Wray, Bruney, Shorts, and I don’t need to even mention the starters. Mount may not score 40, but it will take nothing short of a miracle for UWW to win this year.
December 10th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
The Warhawks have a new coach and a new attitude… I think all of D3football world would be better off with a UWW win… but If we are on the subject of what is best for D3football, I think UWW and MUC should leave D3 and open the division back up. You guys are so damn good that it is not even fun try half the time. I was impressed by the battle UMHB put up against UWW, but can mount really be touched? Tough to say, I am looking forward to watching on ESPN! People around the nation are probably beginning to wonder if there are any other teams in D3 football… these two powerhouses are getting all the national airtime!
December 10th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
OU#25-
I never said a thing about Whitewater’s offense did I? I knew that they weren’t up there statistically. I’m just gonna hope you watch the game on Saturday and then you can tell me that they are the 19th best D in the nation, stats don’t always tell the whole story, at least that’s what I believe. I’m sorry that I have an opinion that you don’t agree with, but isn’t that what message boards are for? Mount Union didn’t score 40 in either of the other games and while they might have a better offense this year, in my opinion the Warhawks have a better defense.
Like I said earlier Mount Union is a great team and they have shown the last two years that they were better than Whitewater. I have lots and lots of respect for them because of what they’ve done.
Raiderdude-
Would you like to elaborate further as to why you don’t think that not having played a close game all year could present a problem? Practice can only get you so far, when you are in a close game is when you find out what kind of team you have. And I think that against La Crosse, Stevens Point, Capital, Stout, and Mary-Hardin Baylor we found out that Whitewater respondes very well in adverse situations.
williethewarhawk-
I’ve been watching the exact same teams that you have. They did lose some great players over this time, no one will argue that. Lots of the seniors this year though kept on improving (Beaver, A.J., Borzick, 4/5 O-Lineman, Blaze, and Gabe, I could go on and on) I think that this year they have the best team, that’s just my opinion. Danny Jones might not be as strong of a passer as Jacobs. But having watched both of them play the legs of Jones put him over the top of Jacobs IMO. He is a dual threat just like Micheli and I think that makes him more dangerous and harder to plan for and contain.
Whitewater has shutdown every rushing attack they have faced this year and the success that they had against Kmic last year 116 yards and 4.4 a carry lead me to believe that again their biggest problem this year will once again be shutting down Garcon. Honestly I think they need to double him every time and take the chance that the other 9 guys can shut down Kmic and Co.
I think it will be a great game and a defensive battle this year, but I guess that we will only be able to find out on Saturday. And congrats to Justin Beaver, you certantly dersive this award.
December 10th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
Bias:
It is not a problem because the majority of the starters are upperclassmen. Last Saturday, 8 of 11 starters were Seniors (Micheli, Kmic, and Reynolds are Juniors) and 8 of 11 defensive starters are seniors (Millings, Nickoi, and Ely are Juniors). These kids have been in the trenches and have played their share of tight games in big situations.
I am sure you aren’t but, don’t judge this team by the first 14 games it has played. This is a veteran team that has played together for a long time. They understand their tendencies, know their strengths, and compliment each other. They can be beat as much as any other team but, don’t believe that their margin of victories are a source for a weakness. Rather than find a weakness, just know that UWW has to step it up a few notches to match the level Mount is playing right now.
The games are played for a reason and there is no guarantee of a Mount victory this Saturday. I said this last week and I will say it again. While it isn’t guaranteed, it is expected. And that expectation is accompanied by exhaustive preparation and game planning coupled with a confidence that Mount’s best can not be matched.
I will say that, with the exception of last week, Mount is penalized too much. They also had a couple of turnovers (which Bethel could not capitalize on) so there is always room for improvement.
I have alot of respect for the UWW program. Whether you win or lose on Saturday, not many teams can say they have gone to three straight Stagg Bowls. Is that good for DIII? Not sure except it does generate buzz and attention to the division. Just be aware (like the last four opponents have) that this Mount team is like nothing you have faced this year.
As far as shutting down Kmic and Garcon, don’t fall alseep on Greg Micheli, or Justin Wray or Bradon Boehm, or Chad Reynolds, or Bryson Davis, or Trevor Bruney. IT isn’t the rushing attack you need to stop. It’s the entire offense. They are not one dimensional by any stretch of the imagination.
And yes….. my congratulations to Justin Beaver on the Gagliardi and to the toher finalists! What an honor!!!
December 10th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
First off I would like to say congrats to both Mount and UW for making it to another Championship. I dont mean to say this in the wrong way, but UW has no chance. Mount Union is and has always been the best program in the country for D3. No put down to UW because what they do is also great, but the one word I can find that seperates the two is domince. Mount Union is domiant in every catagory. A team is not suppoust to win semifinal games 62-14. I mean come on, I thought those games were suppoust to be competitve. 10th national championship coming up!!!!!!!
December 10th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
If I recall, UWW beat Wesley 58-6 in ‘05… anything can happen…
Ok, time to be realistic… this UWW team is the best Defensively, but the worst Offensively… I remember watching the UWW vs. Oshkosh game… and I was going crazy because our offense looked horrible… however, the O has really started to click in the playoffs
I’m thinking Mount wins by anywhere between 17-24
December 10th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
the biggest difference in this game is going to be micheli - the D3 version of tim tebow.
December 10th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
Just so ya’ll know, the 3rd Time is usually the charm for Whitewater. Whitewater was NCAA runner up in 2000 and 2001 with the National Player of the Year in Volleyball, and took a less talented team and beat a HEAVILY favored Washington University in the 2002 final. (The team has since made two more championship games and won another title)
I agree that any other team over UWW in 2005 would have been considered a major upset. Mount Union over UWW was an upset (UWW was higher ranked, and probably had more talent), but mount union is well, mount union.
I see one of two things happening
Whitewater 24 Mount Union 21 (if Whitewater forces some turnovers)
Mount Union 35 Whitewater 14 (if the MUC run game runs over UWW)
Whitewater is clearly a “Top 2″ in NCAA Div III right now, but a UWW win over MUC would have to be considered a MAJOR upset, maybe one of the biggest upsets in NCAA Div III history.
This is basically the New England Patriots playing the Green Bay Packers for the Superbowl. Green Bay is a darn good team, but the Patriots (like MUC) might be the best ever
December 10th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
Does anyone know who the commentators on ESPN will be this weekend?
December 10th, 2007 at 6:50 pm
Props to many of the UWW fans who are not blowing off with jibberish like some have done in the past on this board. I truly hope the Stagg is a great game. Both teams are very impressive to say the least. I think one would have to favor MUC and possibly by 40 (even though I don’t think that will happen). Yet I would not be surprised if UWW made this game close and possibly pulled an upset. No team is unbeatable, I just think some, when looking at their success, are pretty darn close and MUC is one of them.
December 10th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
hscoach, great analysis and points about why this could and maybe should be a close game. uww is very good on defense, not flashy on offense. they have been here before so they are not going to panic. i expect them to play a good football game. umhb is certainly better than bethel, and uww did a pretty good job on a pretty strong offense. this will be my first trip and i believe that it will be a close game. good luck to both teams and safe trips to all who are traveling to salem this weekend.
December 10th, 2007 at 7:37 pm
redhawk93 says:
“Mount Union is and has always been the best program in the country for D3.”
For the record, Mount Union won its first NCAA D-III national championship in 1993. Prior to that, they’d never even played in the Stagg Bowl. I hope that you didn’t actually mean “has always been the best program in the country”.
If so, you’ve overlooked the many outstanding D-III football programs who’ve won championships prior to or even since (PLU, SJU, Linfield) the establishment of the MUC dynasty!
Finally, despite the fact that Mount Union is unquestionably the most successful D-III program in the country over the past 15 years, some might argue that MUC is actually the worst thing in the country “for D3″…
December 10th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
The one thing that I find comical is the people saying that it will be a blowout. Mount Union is great, they should be the favorites but I don’t see where people are coming from when they say that it will be a blowout.
I don’t think anyone can argue that Whitewater has played a stronger schedule up ’til this point. They played a D-2 team, a team that made it to the semi’s (UMHB) and a Lakeland team that was alright this year in non-conference. Mount Union’s nc game was against a team that was 0-10 this year. I’m not even gonna get into the whole conference thing, but the WIAC is, by the experts considered the top conference in D3, while the OAC follows at #2. I would also venture out to say that there playoff run has been against better teams.
I’m very excitied for the game and just learned that I will be able to attend! And to you people knocking the Whitewater offense, you’re right they might not have the same quick strike ability that they have had. But this team under coach Leipold likes to grind it out, that’s what I’ve noticed this year.
How’s the weather supposed to be in Salem on Saturday, anyone knonw?
December 10th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
RE: “Third Time is a Charm”
MTU has already won three Stagg Bowls in a row twice, so third time is a charm really means the Raiders are going to win this year. Next year is the year for them to not win the championship.
December 10th, 2007 at 8:30 pm
Different from the last two years MUC will have to deal with one of their own on the other side of the ball. WWW OC Jim Zebrowski brings the Xfactor to the game with the kind of know how to bring the trophy home to Whitewater.
December 10th, 2007 at 9:33 pm
Xfactor
That’s funny. But for the record, way back when Zebrowski played at Mount, the Raiders weren’t even a factor. In his four years, they played one playoff game and lost it. Good try though. :o)
December 10th, 2007 at 9:53 pm
Thanks Mainjack,
If we use that logic then explain to me Coach K’s record as a player for MUC and the fact that he now holds the best coaching record in any division?
December 10th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
Point is, Leipold is a smart man for talking Zebrowski into leaving a head coaching position and joining the WWW team and bringing his offensive schemes with him. It just might come in handy.
December 10th, 2007 at 10:48 pm
On paper, this doesn’t look good for WW. If WW holds Garcon out of the endzone, they take this game. I agree MU has some serious weapons other than him, but he’s the key…..if I had the answer on how to do that, I’d send an email to Leipold. I think you have to be aggressive with him at the line of scrimmage so he can’t run those underneath routes and get YACs. I agree this is not WW’s most talented O, but this team has continued to find ways to win. They have something mentally that I’m not sure I’ve seen before. They played a scholorship school tough, and MHB was a frickn good football team with a better D than MU (stats don’t tell all). The most talented teams don’t always win, evidenced by the 05 loss to MU. I thinking upset. 28-24 WW.
December 10th, 2007 at 10:56 pm
First of all I would like to congratulate my little cousin Justin WAY TO GO!!! We are all very proud of you. Those of you that have never had the chance to meet Justin WOW what a kid. Heart, Smart, oh yes and kinda Talented!!!
Justin when you guys win this one, just know your Dad is looking down with God and saying “That’s my Son, isn’t he BEAUTIFUL”. You did it, …. You did it.
December 10th, 2007 at 11:14 pm
zebrowski factor, tuffer conferance, better oponents in the playoff run, new coach, prohibative favorite, unstoppable offence, 8 seniors on offence and defence,best program in the country……looks like it’s going to be a hell of a game saturday!
December 10th, 2007 at 11:22 pm
Hey,
Anyone who knows of any prominent MUC or UWW alum planning to go to the game Saturday (and by prominent, I probably mean ex-players, but be creative), drop the name and probable arrival time to Keith@D3football.com. Might respond with a request for more info.
Also, I have several Stagg Bowls on video, but I do not have the access to the past two. If anyone has those games in full, especially either on DVD or online somewhere, please let me know at the same e-mail address.
Thanks.
December 10th, 2007 at 11:25 pm
In my Warhawk opinion, there is no doubt that UWW has to play the game of their lives to have a chance, while MUC has to make more mistakes than the depth of their program is able to overcome. The difference between a UWW chance to win and a blowout is the gap between UWW’s game of their lives and MUC’s mistakes.
Go Warhawks!
December 11th, 2007 at 12:22 am
Just for the record, most weeks 8 of 11 on offense is the case, but last week G Tim Reash (a senior) sat out with a hamstring injury. Geoff Dartt moved over from T and backup T Luke Summers, a junior, started at T.
Giving them 7 of 11 on offense. But if Reash plays this week it will be 8 on both sides again.
Speaks to Mount’s depth, which is absurd. Hardly a sophomore to be found on the two-deep.
I honestly have so much other stuff to work on I can’t get in to responding to a lot of the stuff I have read so far, but it’s definitely interesting. A couple points:
1. I agree with HScoach about the key plays that turned each game.
2. I really think UW-W should have gotten MUC when they had the chance in ‘05. This is the tallest task, though not impossible.
3. I do like UW-W having been tested in close games. But I think MUC would actually relish being able to play a close one. I really don’t see MUC cracking under pressure anyway.
4. If UW-W is going to win this one, they are going to have to tackle well and straight-up outplay MUC. I don’t think they can rely on forcing many mistakes.
5. MUC definitely respects UWW as much as anyone. I believe they will go into this game thinking they can be beaten if they don’t play well, which is not always the case.
Anyway, we’ll be breaking this game down five ways to Saturday, so I won’t get too far into it here. Should be plenty of expert take on the game this week for everyone who is hungry for it.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:41 am
Seems like this is the D3 version of the NFL. MUC (NE) unstoppable vs UWW (NFC) needing a prayer.
Anyways, I hope it’s a close game and I get the feed.
December 11th, 2007 at 6:50 am
muc24 www17
December 11th, 2007 at 7:44 am
There are as many opinions as there are people in this thread. Just for the record, I don’t believe it is good for DIII football to have a “blowout” this Saturday and I truly don’t think there will be.
That being said, I do believe Mount will prevail by at least a couple of touchdowns. To me, a definition of a blowout is like last week’s Bethel game. 41-0 at halftime with second string playing a the majority of the second half. That won’t be the case this week.
Nobody is puffing out their chest and proclaiming a Mount “monkey stomp” over UWW. UWW has been there, the seniors want to leave with a W over Mount and take the trophy, etc. It will be a hard fought game for 60 minutes.
Let’s just not use the conference strength or non-conference argument as reasons for a UWW win. If it gives you confidence with your chances Saturday, so be it but don’t overplay it’s importance. Mount’s games have made ALL their opponents look ordinary (ask the #5 team in the country or the #9 team to name the last two opponents).
This game will be won by the better team that executes their game plan and brings it every play with no let up!
December 11th, 2007 at 8:08 am
MHB was a frickn good football team with a better D than MU (stats don’t tell all).
———-
i’m sure MHB was a good team, but a better defense than mount?
mount union has allowed 73 points, has 7 shutouts. games with double-digit points allowed: 18, 14, 14, 10.
MHB allowed 227 points, had 2 shutouts. games with double-digit points allowed: 41, 30, 23, 20, 19, 19, 16, 14, 14, 14, 10.
December 11th, 2007 at 8:25 am
In retrospect, I believe it is obvious that these are the two teams that deserve to be in this game. The playoff system has worked again. Both of these teams have earned the right to be here.
As much as I love UWW, it is impossible for me to make a logical argument against Mt. Union. Statistically, track record, coaching, talent. Let’s face it, Mount has it all. However, they are not unbeatable. Most Mount fans will agree with that. The only people that seem to label them as unbeatable are people that whine about them belonging in D2. I believe Mount is good for D3 football (even though there presence has cost UWW two national championships!). They are a class program. They give every program in D3 something to shoot for. UWW is an excellent football team with a lot of heart and an undeniable will to win. If there is any team who can upset Mount this year, it is UWW. As much I’ve already been called a ‘homer’ on this board (inappropriately), I have to acknowledge that a UWW victory would be an upset. Could it happen? Of course!
I’m impressed by the respect shown for each team and program in this thread so far. Truthfully, both teams are filled with great kids and athletes that should make D3 fans proud. Mount fans should be proud and should be confident. Heck, they almost never lose! However, it is good to see most of them respect UWW. UWW fans should also be proud and confident. Their team has beaten some excellent teams this year and this is a different team than the one Mount has defeated the past two years. Fans can debate which UWW team is better of the last three years all they want. The fact is that this particular group of kids has never lost to a D3 team. Ever. Mount Union has not ever beaten this group.
It will all be decided Saturday. It is my hope that as fans from both teams get “pumped up” for the game and express their confidence and opinion, they are able to do so with appropriate respect for their opponent. Regardless of who you root for, your opponent has earned your respect.
December 11th, 2007 at 9:58 am
buddy:
As far a Mount’s defense is concerned, the points allowed by the first team are even more sick.
Otterbein scored their 14 points against the second team, St. John Fisher scored their lone touchdown against the second team, Bethel scored their 14 points against the second team. Ithaca is the lone team to score two touchdowns against the first team in 14 games.
UMHB didn’t get to the national semi-finals by just running the ball. They certainly had to have a great defense. It is just preposterous to say that UMHB’s defense was better than MUC. Stats or no, MUC had the best defense in DIII this year.
December 11th, 2007 at 10:01 am
Buddy: I agree 100%. Outside of MHB playing UWW twice, there isn’t anyone on their schedule that looks much different than MUC’s schedule. I have no doubt that Whitewater, Mount and MHB have great defenses, but I’m not ready to put MHB’s above Mount’s. I have to believe the weather and field conditions had as much to do with Whitewater’s limited offensive production last week as MHB’s defense did.
Which brings me to one advantage Mount will have this year in Salem that wasn’t there in the previous 2 Staggs versus UWW. FIELD TURF
Mount has played on grass only once this season (at Ohio Northern on a dry, warm day in early October). All other MUC games were played on turf. Whereas Whitewater has played at least 9 of their games on grass (I’m too lazy to see how many of their road games were on grass/turf). And most importantly the last 4 in less than perfect field conditions.
While I don’t think there’s much of a difference for a grass team to switch to turf, there definitely is an effect on a turf team playing on grass. Especially if the grass field is a little sloppy like the ’05 Stagg was. The ’06 field conditions were very good though as the field was dry and tight.
One of the interesting little differences I’m going to be watching this year is how much better Kmic and Beaver look as runners given the perfect field conditions and therefore the ability to drive their feet and cut at will. Kmic had a 2 yd TD run last week versus Bethel that might have been the best 2 yd run I’ve ever seen by a MUC running back. It was just a simple dive play where the blitzing LB came thru the line with a clear shot at Nate in the backfield immediately after he took the handoff. One quick lateral step and he had a clear path to the endzone untouched. A move that isn’t possible on a soft grass field. Likewise, I’m curious to see how much quicker and stronger Beaver looks this year on turf.
I’m looking forward to a great game between clearly the top 2 teams in all of D3 becuase they EARNED their trip to Virginia. Not because the voters “thought” UWW and MUC were the top 2.
No excuses, the best team ON SATURDAY will win. If either team gets sloppy with the ball and turns it over 3-4 times, they will lose. If one team (MUC) thinks it’s going to be easy because of last year and forgets to show up, they will lose. I’m hoping both teams play at their best and we all get to enjoy the show.
December 11th, 2007 at 10:28 am
“Just so ya’ll know, the 3rd Time is usually the charm for Whitewater. Whitewater was NCAA runner up in 2000 and 2001 with the National Player of the Year in Volleyball, and took a less talented team and beat a HEAVILY favored Washington University in the 2002 final. (The team has since made two more championship games and won another title)”
No offense, but VOLLEYBALL??!! You can’t possibly be using a volleyball result as a reason a football team will get over the hump. This is a classic post.
Look, UWW is a great football program right now and deserve all the credit for what they’ve accomplished. I’m just not sure that their team this year is strong enough to acomplish where they’ve fallen short in the past.
December 11th, 2007 at 11:11 am
Great post Bleed!
I agree 1000% Neither of these programs are here by accident. It is a result of hard work and effort on the part of the players, coaches, parents, and faculty. These are not just good athletes but good students and citizens.
It is only fitting for the fans to reflect that same character.
December 11th, 2007 at 12:03 pm
Here’s to hoping it’s a good game. I’ve been to 4 mount games this year. I havent seen a 4th quarter yet. The second team is in by the 3rd qtr, so you get to see who’s comin up next. And let me tell you there are athletes sitting and waiting for their chance. Their non-starters are better than most opponents starters, even for the playoff teams I do believe this is the most “complete” mount team. The offense goes without saying, but to give up 209 yrds rushing for the season??!! That is just mind boggling. Halftime should be around 5:30. I just hope I’m not heading home by then. GO MOUNT. GO UWW. Please try and make it a game.
December 11th, 2007 at 12:23 pm
Bleed great post!
December 11th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
Hey does anyone know if ESPN is going to do any type of pre-game this year. Or is it going to be the usual covereage that starts 10 seconds before game time?
December 11th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Well, The D3 Football Champiosnship, AKA the Mt. Union Championship Invitational, is upon us. In past years Rowan was the kicking post now UWW has been invited to provide at least one (repeat) quality opponent for them. I understand the teamhouse in Salem has an exta set of lockers with MUC uniforms so they don’t have to bring them. Even for a passionate D3 fan this is getting old. Though they have a team who plays to the end, with a balanced offense I can’t see UWW contending with the overwhelming amount of strength, consistency and weapons that MUC possesses. The season ends in Salem with MUC 42 UWW 10.
December 11th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
dlippiel-
i looked on their website and it looks like they are starting coverage at 3pm cst unfortunately:(
at least it is televised nationwide and in hd
December 11th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
If I remember correctly, they put a basketball game just before the Stagg and last year the basketball game went into overtime which delayed the broadcast. Let’s hope that isn’t the case this year. DI just usually takes precedence.
I would think that ESPN would hype the game because of it being the third installment of MUC/UWW.
December 11th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
9isfine (and all other stat junkies):
The most outstanding defensive game I witnessed was the John Carroll/Mount game. This was an away game for Mount and they held John Carroll (a solid team) to -2 yards of TOTAL offense for the ENTIRE GAME!!! I realize the game was late in the year and John Carroll had nowhere to go but home but negative yards for the game? And you know that the second string was playing a good bit of the second half due to the final being 53-0.
And UMHB has a better defense? Not sure about that.
December 11th, 2007 at 1:20 pm
Not to take anything away from mounts effort against JC, but that school has publicly said they are gonna de-emphasize football and continue to focus on academics. Whatever that means, I guess they better leave the OAC. It’s too good of a conference. The bottom line is you dont run against mount. you cant run against mount. It will be a long day for a great running back named Beaver. You have to be a team that throws and runs equally well to have any inkling of a chance, and those teams dont exist in D III.
December 11th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
UWW needs to run short pass routes to keep the D line from pressuring Jones, mix in the run, and be unpredictable. Mount has great team speed. You don’t out run them at all. Plus with their depth, they can keep up the intensity with fresh legs.
The game will be very entertaining!
December 11th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Congrats to Beaver as well. Great football player and a great kid.
I agree MU’s stats (including playoffs) are dominating, staggering, & impressive. You don’t get those types of stats by accident. Avg.s & stats are misleading, however, which is why they play the games (unlike the joke of system in D1). MHB has a kid who might have a shot on sundays, and I saw their O put them in some tough spots. In any event, I’ll find out Saturday.
WW has seen great defenses this year, and handled them OK. It’s the barrage of MU weapons on O (line included) that really scares me. I know we haven’t seen something like that this year.
I can’t recall a team dominating all of D3 like MU has on both sides of the ball. It’s mind boggling. I just hope these Hawks can put something together and make it a game against the top program in the country. I wish I could be there.
Go Hawks!!
December 11th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
Don’t count on a blowout, on either side, this Saturday, folks. While the weather around here(I live an hour East of Salem) has been warm the past few days, and will be for a couple more, the forecast for Saturday is cold(highs in the low to mid-40s) and rainy. Salem Stadium is a great place to play, but it can become a swamp at times when it rains.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
OK.Iv been reading all of the comments on here from both side of the fans.Theres some that i agree with then theres some that i dont agree with.The one that bothered me was the one sayiny “that all UWW defence has to do is stop Kmic and you’ll be fine” Well if you stop Kmic you still have 5 other RB on the field that the QB could throw the ball to.And you CAN stop Garcon but you have 5 other WR that could run the ball to the endzone either way UWW cant stop Mounts runs they have the number one defence and offence in the nation.Either way one team has to win and one team has to loose and ALL of the fans will find out on Saturday who the best is in D3 football but i have somthing else to add.If u look at mounts statics they had like 7 shutout games like 55-0 60-0 something like that and UWW has had none.Mount played 3 teams in the playoffs this year that they never had played and they blew them out example the St. John Fisher game they (mount) won 52-10 i mean that sounds like a mount game.I dont think UWW has another chance this year to beat the undeniable,unbeatable,awsome team the MOUNT UNION PURPLE RAIDERS!!!!! this year is for the SENIORS OF MOUNT UNION!!!!!
GO MOUNT WE’LL BE CHEERING FOR YA BACK HERE AT HOME….
December 11th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Cardsrul,
If they put that new sport turf in properly, the drainage should be sufficient to handle up to 10″ of rain. The field should not be an issue.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
samething to Cardsrul…Mount wont have a problem playing the rain,snow,sleet and hail they play their best in that stuff so the rain wont bother them.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
Well if you stop Kmic you still have 5 other RB on the field that the QB could throw the ball to.And you CAN stop Garcon but you have 5 other WR that could run the ball to the endzone either way UWW cant stop Mounts runs they have the number one defence and offence in the nation.
No wonder Mount Union is so good, they have five RBs and WRs on the field at the same time! You’re right Whitewater won’t have a chance against that.
December 11th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
I hope UWW will win.
That is not a knock on MUC - I think it would be healthier for the game if there was some variability in result of an MUC game.
Go UWW.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
QB, 5 RB’s, 5 WR’s, 5 Linemen…
Sounds like the first team all-conference squad for some conferences.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
5 RB’s and 5 WR’s? Wow. That would be tough.
Which ties right into Pam Ward during the ESPN broadcast last year saying Mount runs a 5-2-5 defense. No wonder they’re so good!
December 11th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
lmao! Would UWW get to play 16 on defense? I think the point raiderfan was trying to make was that the offense is not just Kmic or Garcon as has been said earlier.
Besides, he said “5 other” for both Kmic and Garcon so that would be 18 total. Even more awesome!!!
SJF Fan - the lack of variability in the result of an MUC game did not happen overnight. As has been mentioned earlier, Linfield, St. John, etc. have all been there. Mount is just on a roll right now with talent, coaching, etc. I think it is great for the game for several reasons but I will mention two:
1. It brings the spotlight on DIII. With this dynasty, casual observers and fans take notice of the whole program. Maybe the focus would be on Mount but, the entire DIII program benefits from the pub.
2. The model Mount has created is there for all who are willing to study, learn, and try to replicate. Rather than hope for Mount to fail, work to bring your program up to that level. There is no smoke and mirrors, just a non-stop work ethic, a great coaching staff, a beautiful campus, great location in a football hot-spot, a great learning environment, tradition, and, of course, great talent.
I will admit to not having first hand experience at many other DIII schools outside of Ohio but I would be willing to bet that Mount’s example could be replicated at a host of other schools.
I am a Mount Union fan but, more importantly, I am a fan of DIII sports and I am looking forward to a competitive game by two great schools! Anything less in the National Championship game would not hold the casual fan’s attention.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
SJF Fan,
You again? I thought for sure Mount got rid of you when we Annihilated your team. ( if 52-10 falls into that category) Well, I’m very happy you are rooting for UWW, with you on their side they are doomed for sure. By the way, if the game is played by two teams who deserve to be in the game, whatever the score may be is healthy for the game. Whatever that means.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
Good Lord, I hope Raiderfan isn’t a Mount grad. His writing skills are atrocious.
Great post raiderdude.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
Now Now R24. Take it easy on poor SJF. His Cardinals have another shot at the Mount in ‘08 and ‘09 to prove they belong near the top. He is just a fan.
And yeah, I knew what you meant. The two best are duking it out and earned the right to play instead of by a computer ranking. That is always good for the integrity of the game!
December 11th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
Thanks Raidergal!
By the way, I hope I don’t get graded on my posts. The occassional misspelling is due more to fat fingers than to grammatical deficiency.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
I think I am starting to really like SJF. Maybe after the next two seasons we can adopt the little fellow. Can We?
December 11th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
If nothing else, I respect SJF for his undying belief in his team. He may not always be right but he is guided by his loyalty. Can’t fault a guy for that!
Besides, I truly believe he respects the Mount and DIII. Just sometimes doesn’t articulate his thoughts quite on point.
It’s the difference between rooting through your heart over your mind. His heart says SJF but his mind screams MUC. Hard to muffle the mind sometimes.
December 11th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
Thx u Raiderdude what i was trying to say is that Mount has more than just Kmic and Garcon they have 5 other RB and WR.Their not all out on the field at once come on peaple its commen sence.AND IM A GIRL.
December 11th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
You adopt SJF and we will adopt MHB. Is anyone noticeing that the weather report for Sat is getting worse and worse by the day. I am glad they will have field turf to play on! Can’t wait to see the game Sat.
P.S. please put space between your sentances, they are much easier to read that way.
December 11th, 2007 at 6:39 pm
latest weather forecast, according to the weather channel:
36-31, light rain and sleet. 60% chance of precip
oh boy.
December 11th, 2007 at 7:09 pm
UMHB will adopt both UWW and MUC since all of us are the power house of D3. UMHB should be great again next year, we have a lot of people coming back.
Please don’t tell me Pam Ward is doing the Stagg again this year. She is the true results of placing someone in a position because of gender or diversity; poor results!
I am pulling for the Hawks since UMHB and UWW play during the regular season. By the way, do they play in Belton next year? I hope so because I have a feeling UMHB wins that game.
December 11th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
Does anybody know how I can get a copy of the UWW-UMHB game? Maybe a replay or something so I can record it. You Warhawk fans should be able to help me here since the game was on TV up there. I would be willing to pay someone for the CD and pay postage. Call me if you want 780-4440 or email artyj@vvm.com.
December 11th, 2007 at 7:39 pm
I’m going to the game and would love to see an archive of a Mt. Union game. Does anybody know if there is an archive available (I won’t tell UWW of the weakness in Mt’s game).
Really, it would be fun for me and the kid to watch them before the game.
December 11th, 2007 at 8:01 pm
HS Coach,
I appreciated your post on the previous Stagg Bowl games between UWW and MUC. I admit I’m a UWW guy, but I too feel that the 2005 UWW team could have/should have won the game, but they didn’t adjust to the atmosphere until too late. MUC was too strong last year with Micheli having a great game and getting everyone involved.
Going forward, it’s really hard to envision how good Micheli must be with a full year of starting under his belt- the stats bear out that he is a star-amongst the other big names at MUC.
Even if UWW can hold its own or even win the line of scrimmage, there is so much speed and ability in MUC’s skill positions that quick plays can still hurt us.
I’m getting tired of talking myself out of hope. There is always a way- The Jets did it, Appalacian State did it, the US Olympic Hockey team did it, Rocky did it- Yes, UWW can do it.
December 11th, 2007 at 8:03 pm
mikem17,
I have last year’s Stagg Bowl still recorded on my DishNetwork DVR. Come on down to FL and you can watch.
RE: Last year’s game:
Unfortunately, it was a Texas Tech BB game where Bobby Knight was breaking or tying the all time win record, so they kept that on during the start of the Stagg Bowl. Who frickin’ cares??? You can watch ESPN slobber all over Bobby all night long on SportsCenter and ESPNews, but we only get one DIII Game Televised all year. I was not happy last year. I even recorded the replay of the game, but it was shortened due to time restraints so part of that recording was missing.
I also remember Pam Ward keep referring to the Raider D as a 5-2-5 and Mike Gottfried sounding like he had too many adult beverages prior to the game. They also referred to #1 on UWW last year as Piere Garcon.
December 11th, 2007 at 8:44 pm
miekm said: “There is always a way- The Jets did it, Appalacian State did it, the US Olympic Hockey team did it, Rocky did it- Yes, UWW can do it.”
Danny Jones is no Broadway Joe
Lloyd Carr is no Larry Kehres
Mount Union will not be overconfident
That was a movie
All kidding aside, I think this will be a really, really good game.
December 11th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
Pam Ward is horrible. Horrible. Horrible. She did one of the games this weekend, I think it was the Delaware game but it may have been the Grand Valley State game. Anyway those are the two I saw parts of.
December 11th, 2007 at 11:31 pm
December 11th, 2007 at 11:34 pm
ric was that an attempt at an “haiku” ? try: jones is no broadway joe carr is no larry kehres overconfident?
December 12th, 2007 at 7:52 am
As I mentioned yesterday, the Mount/UWW version III is bringing attention to DIII. My hope is with that attention comes an upgrade in commentators.
I mean, think of the parallels. Mount playing UWW for the THIRD time in the Stagg Bowl, Mount going for it’s THIRD consecutive championship in Division THREE. Not to mention that was THREE references to the word THREE (or derivations thereof). Look for #THREE Chris Kappas to have THREE pass breakups for MUC and #THREE Mitch Moore to have THREE catches for UWW.
Kinda eerie isn’t it?
Also, Raiderfan……….
Sorry for referring to you as a “he”. My bad. Made an assumption and you know what happens when you assume.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:17 am
Garcon to NFL article. Plus other mount article links.
http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?ID=391011&originalStoryID=391013&r=
December 12th, 2007 at 10:24 am
Ok, now that it looks as though everybody is in agreement that Mount is going to win their 10th Nat’l Championship. It’s time for my pet peeve. How can Mount Union have such a dominating defense, and not ONE player make first team AFCA All American? Nate Kmic is on the threshold of being the Div. III all time leading rusher and he not a 1st team All American? Not even mentioned for the Gagliardi award? Justin Beaver was more than deserving of the Gagliardi. But for Kmic not to even be in the running (excuse the pun). I will never understand these awards. Then again they are set up so you can’t understand them.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:40 am
mountzilla, let’s try this.
Jones no Broadway Joe
Carr is no Larry Kehres
Overconfident
December 12th, 2007 at 11:11 am
R24:
While Mount has tremendous talent, the beauty of their defense in particular is they way they play as a team. Sure you can point to individuals like McCullogh, Rees, and Kostelnik as difference makers but that would not do justice to the rest of the guys. This defense is where it is because you can’t key on one player. Their team speed and strength makes it extremely difficult to double team a player because they close the gaps so quickly. Sacks are had by the line but are caused by great coverage downfield. Other schools have great talent also but certain players stand out as “key” guys because the overall talent isn’t the same. I know it stinks at times but that’s the double edged sword of playing on a talent-rich team.
As far as the Gagliardi is concerned, is that a senior award? It’s hard to imagine that Kmic will not be a prohibitive favorite for next year’s award. By the time he graduates, Kmic will have broken most (if not all) MUC rushing records if not DIII. And that is without playing almost half the available playing time due to the margin of score.
While it would be nice to see more Mount players as AFCA All Americans, I think it is good for DIII to have a wide representation of teams. They may even limit the inclusion to one member per team.
I may be way off base but for what it’s worth…… it’s just my opinion.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:15 am
mikeb:
Thanks for the heads up on the article. It’s a great comparison. Stanley had great numbers at UWW but Garcon’s are a bit better.
The only question I would have with Garcon is his durabilitiy. He missed playing time in his tenure with Mount due to a variety of injuries (leg, hand, etc.)
He is definitely a key piece to the MUC offense and I would hope he is given a shot at the NFL.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:20 am
Mt Union has the greatest football team, the greatest coach, the greatest players, and the greatest fans.
Why are they even playing the game sat?
Here’s to another 10 championship and 200 game unbeaten streak.
Go Mt!
December 12th, 2007 at 11:26 am
Indeed, the AFCA limits schools to one All-American per team.
Also, R24, since Mount Union nominated Derek Blanchard for Gagliardi it was difficult for someone to vote for Kmic.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:33 am
For what’s worth, Vegas has the spread at 23 1/3 points. Kind of a gutsy wager either way.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:47 am
Pat,
Thanks for the clarification.
yellow_jacket98 , Now you’ve have finally got it. You’re welcome to join the
MT. Union express. UWW will be solid and they earned the right to be in the stagg. Unlike your team. Just wondering, are you a BW follower?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:58 am
A few quick points:
Bias:
I mentioned Mount was #1 in the nation on offense… whether you asked me to or not because… I do not personally agree with your assessment that Mount would be lucky to score 28 points on Saturday. A great defense assists a great offense and personally I also believe Mount has a good shot to score 40 which you said would be impossible. All I was doing was providing facts/stats to support my argument…and you provided your feelings…which is fine but not the type of discussion that I want to be a part of this week.
HSCoach:
You mentioned that MUC’s previous Stagg victories over WWW always seemed to turn on big plays. Like that’s something unusual??? Every game in every sport tends to turn on 1-3 big plays per contest. Mount is very opportunisitic and well prepared to take ADVANTAGE of those game changing opportunities. That goes back to coaching. The game is truly a reflection of your preparation.
To the Poster that said Mount may not be ready to hadle a close game:
For the past 10-15 years…EVERY game Mount plays including regular/post season is the other teams superbowl. Regardless of the score or outcome…facing Mount is the biggest game on everyone’s schedule. This is the game where Mount sees all the gadget plays and everyone trying to punch Mount in the mouth. That’s real pressure…that’s prepararation…the strive for perfection is something that most folks cannot even grasp….so I think Mount will be prepared for any situation and be able to take advantage this on Saturday…even in the face of adversity.
SJF Fan:
It’s odd that your rooting against Mount this year…since Mount is representing the East? Seems backwards…and would make SJF look worse if Mount loses to WWW? I would think your program would like the oportunity to knock off the possible pre-season #1 to kickoff ‘08???
Question:
Small point but I thought I would ask…I’ve heard that Mount will be the visiting team this Saturday…I don’t know if that’s true or not but shouldn’t they be the home team again this year? I thought it rotated between E/W & N/S every year. Last year Mount was the North/South rep and they were the home team in the Stagg. If that’s the case then this year it would be the East/West rep’s turn to be home. Mount is the East rep…so wouldn’t they also be the home team??? If someone could explain that would be great.
Finally: I hope this Saturday will provide for a good contest. One thing that I know is that talent alone is not enough to win at this time of the year. You need the mental advantage. There have been teams in the past in every sport that have had the talent but cannot visualize themselves as champions. Mount has done it in the past and knows what it takes to actually win the championship. This is a big advantage….not the biggest but certainly an important ingrediant to ultimate success.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:23 pm
Good point yellow_jacket, I am starting to wonder if there should even be a game Saturday. We might as well just give Mount Union the crown right now.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:23 pm
I think that Kmic only just got or was just shy of 1000 yards in the regular season. I understand that he played less than half of most games and I also understand that this fact will probably preclude him from winning a national player of the year award.
Perhaps next year the competition in the regular season will be stiffer and he’ll be required to play deeper into the second half. Then I think you’ll see him and his teammate Micheli getting a push for the award.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Buckeye Radier:
From my understanding, stats alone don’t get you the Gagliardi Award. Community service, classroom performance and athletic skills are all taken into account. If Nate has an equally strong season on the field next year and excels in some of these other areas then I think he’ll have a good chance to win.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
Very few on here have proclaimed MUC the winner before even playing. As I read the posts, most of the hype to Mount is based on indisputable fact. It may be true that personal emotion adds to the post but it is based on this past season’s results, etc.
I think we can all agree that this matchup is the best DIII could have envisioned for the Stagg Bowl given not only the results of this season but the last two as well. Just think of the progression. UWW was the favorite in 2005, they were evenly matched last year, and MUC is favored this year. That is balanced.
Given that MUC is the favorite, why would a Raider fan not espouse the reasons why they are favored? Doesn’t guarantee a victory but it supports the ranking and position going into the game.
I am willing to engage in a meaningful debate over the game but will not apologize for supporting my home team and backing up that suport with a mix of fact and opinion.
I hope the game is a battle with MUC emerging victorious!
December 12th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
OU #25: I was told by the Salem Civic Center that “they” (don’t know who “they” are!) look at the final four teams and decide which team would have the greatest chance of filling the east stands for TV coverage. In the case of UWW and Mount, the decision came down to UMHB and Bethel since both UWW and Mount have shown the ability to fill either side for a good TV shot. Apparently “they” felt Bethel could fill the stands better than UMHB would have.
I usually buy my tickets three or four weeks in advance and sit in the same seats every year regardless of who is there, although Mount being there makes in more fun for my little group of Virginians. It can also make for some interesting conversations - some good and sadly, some not so good.
Travel safe in the predicted weather, everyone who is coming in. Hopefully it holds off for 12 hours or so.
Go Mount!
December 12th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
BiasD3FootballFan,
It’s better that they play the game. It gives posters like you something to dream about, One day your team may make it to the big dance to play Mount.
December 12th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
Haven’t heard too much chatter from the UWW fans this year, unlike last two years.
Honestly, a game like this is hard to predict, when the two teams involved played such different opponents. I have to give the strength of schedule to Whitewater (I think UMHB was one of the best teams in the country and UWW played them twice) Last year I would have given MT the strength of schedule, playing Capital twice.
MUC stats are ridiculously dominant, but I’m not sure directly comparing stats tells the whole story.
UWW has a very good football team. This will be the best D and best running game we have faced this year, and they have a lot of playoff experience. I hope the MUC shows up ready to play, and not just show up to pick up the trophy like they did against St. John’s a few years ago. That was the only time I saw such a poor performance from the Raiders in the last 15 yrs, so I don’t expect it will happen this Saturday, but who knows?
I’m sure LK will be prepared and keep his kids focused. I think it will be hard to shut down Micheli, Kmic, Garcon and co. Turnovers, as always, will play a big part in the outcome. Both teams are good at forcing the other team to make mistakes.
My best guess…..
MUC 35
UWW 24
December 12th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
Hey…I really like yellow_jacket what he said about Mount has the best team the best coaches and the best fans.We do i go up to the tailgating every weekend and to the games to cheer the purple raiders on and all of the fans have spirit….and i really think when the players see all the fans in the stands with their spirit they get pumped for the game..and whoever said something about just giving the crown to mount now..well first question Why?? dont u wanna see a GOOD game Saturday.Well you wont if you just give the crown to them now..
Also raiderdude,
Its cool dont worry about….
Another thing if any mount fans would like to know mount players are leaving tonight at 5:45 so go up and cheer them on and say goodbye k just thought i would let you know…
GOOOOOOOOOOO MOUNT KICK ASS SATURDAY!!!!!!!!
December 12th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
ALSO I FORGOT….i really hope to god that Garcon gets drafted this next fall tot he NFL i read the article on the repository site i really beleive in Garcon i know really well and i know hes gonna make it…..GOOD LUCK BUDDY
December 12th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
Well, its Chapter III in the Battle of Dark Purple.
I am flying out from Saint Paul, MN on Friday (third and last time I think). I am just hoping for a good game in this D III trilogy of two heavyweights. I am glad to see most of the posts are pretty tactful and hope the fans behave themselves on Saturday if it gets ugly. I also hope the celebration after scores is not obnoxious - both sides. Act the part as if you have been there before.
I am really pulling for University of Wisconsin-Whitewater (I am a product of UW-Madison for my undergrad. and masters degree) but know they have a formidable task against Mount Union College this time around.
I liked the post from bleedpurple Says: December 11th, 2007 at 8:25 am. Well thought out.
I remain curious what UW-Whitewwater has left in the tank after the game I saw last Saturday. My observations from driving down and seeing them play the playoffs this year versus 2006 is this team seems not as tight. Perhaps there is less pressure on them, given the expectations for 2006, with the number of returning team members and the coach’s last year, etc.
The team (UWW) reminds me of the Buffalo Bills Super Bowl runs in the early 1990s - a bridesmaid but never a bride. As I think about the Bill’s run, esp. against the New York Giants in the first game of four, I wonder if the recipe for beating college’s version of the “Green the Bay Packers 1960s dynasty” (sorry but I grew up in WI) is to keep their offense off the field with slow, deliberate drives - the approach the New York Giants took against Buffalo. Who knows.
Keep up the great posts and best of luck to both teams this weekend.
December 12th, 2007 at 9:59 pm
As impressive as Mount is on offense, their defense is very tough. SJF and Bethel had good O-lines and good RB’s, but Mount completely shut them down. I know UWW probably has a better o-line and certainly the best RB Mount will face this year, but I really think Mount will be able to limit their ground game. In my opinion, I really believe this is going to be a defensive battle. I don’t expect UWW to score alot of points, so they better have their best defensive effort of the season, and hope to capitalize on MUC’s mistakes. I do believe it will be a great game and I cant wait for Sat. I only wish I could be in Salem but TV will have to do.
Since this game is on national TV, will the officiating crew us instant replay?
December 12th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
I don’t remember them using instant replay during last year’s game, but I guess if they have enough cameras available, and a trained officiating crew, it might be a possibility. I was looking through the Stagg Bowl Media Guide earlier today and it didn’t mention anything about it in the section about ESPN’s coverage. It did mention that the announcers will be Pam Ward doing play-by-play, Ray Bentley doing color commentary, and Ron Simmelkjaer on the sidelines.
I guess this is Bentley’s first year doing the Stagg Bowl, but it sounds like he has quite a bit of experience with both football (USFL and the Buffalo Bills, as well as coaching an Arena league team) and in broadcasting (NFL on Fox, Arena League, Buffalo Bills preseason games). I don’t specifically remember hearing him do any games, but sounds like he could be a good addition to the coverage team.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:15 pm
They did use instant replay last year.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:25 pm
As for the game itself, I think UWW has all the talent they need to keep up with Mount, but they need to put it to good use and probably get a little bit lucky. If they focus too much on not making mistakes, they might get conservative and MUC will run away with it. But on the other side, Mount can’t afford to play any less than their best game. UWW should put up more of a fight than anyone MUC has faced this year, and the Warhawks are very adept at capitalizing on mistakes (just ask UMHB). Should be a close, hard fought game, and a great showcase for DIII football.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:31 pm
Thanks for the update on the replay. I was in Salem at the game last year, and now that you mention it, I guess I do remember them using it. It always seems different watching the game on tv vs. actually being at the stadium.
December 12th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
Great dialogue on this post!!
I hope Garcon makes it. Great player.
This UWW team has exceeded many outsider expectations this year. Myself included.
I’m proud to have been a Hawk. Despite the obstacles, these guys will get it done this year.
28-24 WW
Go Hawks!!
December 13th, 2007 at 10:18 am
Current forecast for Saturday, 38 and Rain. I know Salem does an outstanding job, but I also think that MT and UWW deserve better than 38 and rain. These two teams have battled the elements for four weeks (esp. UWW) and now the biggest game of their football careers…. 38 and rain. The NCAA seems to do a good job saving money by scheduling the playoffs according to proximity, you would think they could take some of these savings and send the two finalists to Naples, or Arizona, or anywher warm. What about the poor parents, finally get to see their sons in the game of games and have to endure those horrible elements. I know the coaches and players will tell you they don’t care, but it’s the principle of it. The NCAA is sending horrible Michigan 8-4 to the Capital One bowl, and I would rather watch Mt and UWW anyday. Oh but they are DI. Kids are Kids DI or DIII and what a thrill it would be for our DIII kids to play somewhere like, maybe, Disneyworld. Good luck to Mount Union and Wisc. Whitewater. I know both teams will leave “it” on the field but most importantly I hope the Kids have a great time, especially the seniors.
December 13th, 2007 at 10:41 am
Ironic. What about the poor parents indeed? Not everyone is wealthy enough to drop money on a flight to FL or CA!
December 13th, 2007 at 11:44 am
I am not sure on the logic there Pat. Most DIII schools are not state supported and thus the cost of tuition, etc. is much higher. If the parents can afford those costs, a plane trip, etc. should be also.
I have always wondered how so many can afford these package trips to travel to the south and west for the college bowl games. Money is made available if needed I suppose for the “experience”.
I think the biggest difficulty most of us have is with the game schedule versus the holiday season events. Most of us work during the week and there are only so many weekends in December prior to Christmas. The game being on the 17th is placed directly in conflict with those other holiday activities with family, work, etc. Not saying ti needs changed but it does make it logistically difficult to balance all the needs. I, for one, have three other events scheduled for that morning and evening which makes the trip impossible.
In fact, our evening holiday party engagement starts at 7pm and I am showing up late so I don’t miss the end of the game!
For what it’s worth…………..
GO MOUNT!!
December 13th, 2007 at 11:45 am
randy
December 13th, 2007 at 12:23 pm
Being a hometown boy I’ve watched Mount for more years then even the head coach has. I’m so old that I remember walking in just before the half for free and I sure remember when out hometown High School Team could have wiped those rich fatboy’s tails off. Things sure changed and with the College a stones throw away from my neighborhood I see a ton of games.
I said early in the season how I couldn’t believe how good this years team was.
There is a long list of record holders that just a few years ago had numbers that looked untouchable. Most of those records have been surpassed and this team heads for the bench before the fourth quarter. Has anyone wondered the kind of numbers Kimic would have if he played a whole game.
I’m saying Mount 41-9
December 13th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
The game belongs in Salem for several reasons:
1) The committee and the city give it the attention it deserves, and it gets better every year because they make an effort to add something, whether it be TV-quality lighting, instant replay and a giant video screen and now this year turf.
2) Discussing strictly proximity, most Division III teams are located in the Northeast, mid-Atlantic and northern Midwest. Salem is not only in driving distance for a majority of teams (though the West keeps sending teams, and that doesn’t seem to work for them), it’s weather on game day closely approximates what you might find at a game elsewhere in D3 that day.
It might be nice to take a sunny vacation in conjunction with the Stagg Bowl, but you have to remember, we don’t get two months to work on travel plans. Fans get 7 days, so team bus trips like the one UWW is sponsoring, or being within a day trip of the game site (
Asking people to get flights from Ohio or Wisconsin to some southern locale on 7 days notice would be quite a burden, much more than is necessary.
There are years, like UMHB vs. Linfeld, when everyone is stuck doing that. But it’s no coincidence that the highest attendance by far in Salem’s Stagg history was when Bridgewater (3 hrs) played Mount Union (driving distance, 6 hrs maybe?)
As far as the timing of the game during the holidays, how else are you gonna get 10 games and 5 weeks of playoffs in?
With all due respect, I don’t believe you’ve thought this through as throroughly as the people who have planned this game for the past 15 years. They are not looking out for the fans who want to make their holiday parties and get a tan for Christmas as they are for the student-athletes that could potentially play in the game.
December 13th, 2007 at 1:25 pm
Also, R24aider (I realize Raiderdude was half of those posts as well, but this one’s for you):
The game has been played in Florida (Bradenton) and Alabama (Phenix City) as well as Kings Island Ohio (not a warm locale, but assuming that’s the amusement park of the same name), and I don’t get the sense (having done the knowledge on the history) that any of those places were a success, attendance-wise or in the attention they were able to give the game.
In Phenix City for instance, they used local officials crews that had not done Division III games all season … you might think an SEC crew is better suited to do this game, but a D3 crew better knows the nuances of the D3 game and, it is the opinion of the NCAA director of championships that it’s the officials’ championship too, so they try to select a top-rated crew from around that isn’t from a conference close to either team.
Also, I know it’s cool to bash the NCAA, but come on … I’m surprised you don’t know this. The NCAA has nothing to do with sending anyone to any bowls, Capital One or otherwise. The NCAA administers the championships in every sport and divisions I-AA, II and III … but since I-A refuses to have an actual championship, the bowls, individually owned corporations by the way, with CEOs and local business interests, are who picks up the tab for team travel and everything else associated with putting on a bowl.
I think you really knew that and just had a lapse.
I feel like we have this discussion about whether the game belongs in Salem a couple times a year. Wait, we do, so I set up a thread a long time ago to discuss it.
Should the Stagg Bowl find a better site or stay in Salem, Va.?: http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=4975.0
You are entitled to your opinion, but I think you should familiarize yourself with all sides of the argument before forming it.
December 13th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
Keith:
Don’t misunderstand my post. First, I prefer a playoff to a corporate selection of the biggest potential ratings and an imperfect selection system.
I also understand that, unless you start playing football in July, you will butt up against the holidays. And finally, I appreciate the attention given by Salem to the stadium, surroundings, and the overall atmosphere of DIII’s biggest game.
My point was that it is difficult to balance the schedule. I certainly don’t trivialize DIII football just as I’m sure you don’t trivialize the holiday season and family gatherings. My upbringing and value system dictate family first where there are difficult scheduling decisions.
I applaud the efforts of the NCAA, DIII, and the city of Salem to make this the best event possible and provide the players and fans an appropriate setting.
Good luck to both teams Saturday!
December 13th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
OK,
A couple more things I noticed while skimming here.
I don’t think UWW was a “favorite” in 2005. They were a power team, but still new to the championship scene then. According to the panel we assembled that year — Well, I’m having trouble Googling, but I’m willing to bet more people picked MUC — though who knows if I was one of them. I usually get killed on that pick.
When our predictions for this year go up tonight or tomorrow, previous years will be linked.
It’s a fairly good bet this won’t be the case on the D3football.com All-American team.
Would not be surprised to see an AP Little All-American from MUC, but I agree this this is less a star-laden defense than some MUC others.
Gagliardi takes one nominee per school. As mentioned in Alliance last week, could be a tough choice between Kmic and Micheli next season … although you can bet both of those guys will push for the other or say the championships are plenty consolation.
December 13th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Fair enough. But there has been football going on during the holidays at least as long as I’ve been alive. Though high school games are over by Christmas, where I went to HS, in S. Jersey, Thanksgiving-morning games are a tradition. I’m willing to bet most people on this board have NFL on the TV during Thanksgiving events, as well as NFL and D-1 Bowls on through New Year’s Day gatherings.
I too, skip the company Christmas party each year to do D3football. I think I’ve been once when Pat offered to let me go and fly me out the next morning.
I’m sure it’s a difficult decision.
I guess what I’m saying is two things:
1) My upbringing is very much family first as well, but we always seem to be around football somehow during Fall holidays, if not in person, then on TV (as the Stagg Bowl is available) … The Stagg Bowl seems to me to be a family event, at least where the travel is concerned, I very rarely hear of anyone showing up alone. Families of players seem to be there in full force, as you might expect for the big game.
2) Football in December is not a new phenomenon, so I sort of don’t understand the complaint. There aren’t really any better options, and I’ve always looked at it like D3 football is over by the third week of December so it DOESN’T intrude on the holidays or accompanying gatherings. I don’t believe it ever stretches to the Saturday closest to Christmas, and never to the day itself, so in a lot of ways, the current setup allows us to avoid even tougher decisions.
Maybe I’m just seeing it as a glass half-full deal though.
December 13th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
I guess you did say you didn’t think it had to be changed … just seemed like an odd observation since it’s always been that way for everyone.
December 13th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
We are good Keith and, yes, I watch football on Thanksgiving day and Basketball on Christmas day (in fact, the Cavs play the Heat this year so will be especially watching that one). Just not at the stadium, on TV.
December 13th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
Salem, VA does a great job. Period.
Yes, a trip to sunny FLA would be nice for the actual teams, but I also know that I would have made exactly ZERO trips to Florida to watch Mount play. Whereas Salem VA is a reasonable drive away, allowing me to make my 10th trip tomorrow morning.
Salem might not be close to EVERYBODY, but it is close to ALMOST EVERYBODY.
December 13th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
Hey guys i just wanted to let everyone know that theres a party up at Hoover Price Campus Center saturday at 4pm then kick-off is at 4:06….i hope were all pumped because i know i am im ready to my purple raiders in action for the last time this season….
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO PURPLE RAIDERS!!!!!!GOOD LUCK
December 13th, 2007 at 6:14 pm
Keith,
If you get a chance, try this place out. It was my favorite when I lived in Roanoke. The biggest, fattest, juiciest wings in town. 10 different sauces to choose from.
All Sports Cafe
http://www.allsportscafeinc.com
December 13th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
d3keith, good points. i know for a fact that if the game was somewhere else that we would not be going. i am looking forward to going with my wife and son, coming home from college by 3, we are leaving by 4, hope to be at the corn beef and company by 10 or so. i have no connection to either team, but my son plays at wesley and we want to see what it is all about. after having met the guys at stone station and you guys at d3, except for pat, i am really looking forward to the game. the weather may not be great, who cares. the teams will play the game and i cant wait to see it. i am also looking forward to meeting so many of the posters on this site who are friends with the stone station guys. as far as the game goes, i will be cheering for uww, like the underdog. i’ll go with 27 - 24. safe trip to all those traveling and we will see you friday night or saturday, early since we always tailgated by 10 at wesley.
December 13th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
Your son might consider wearing his Wesley jersey at the Stagg Bowl. I think he might get 10 favorable nods for every detractor, and the respect of the overwhelming majority of the D3 family in attendance.
December 13th, 2007 at 11:04 pm
I am making my first trip to Salem and can’t wait. I will say this much, I am coming from IL so I am flying and it’s cheaper and more time convenient to fly to Raleigh-Durham and rent a car than flying into Roanoke. I’m not complaining since I realize this wasn’t planned around my convenience, just saying.
Regardless of the weather, I am praying for a close game, with both teams having an opportunity to win at the end.
December 14th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
hey guys less than 20 hours till kick-off i cant wait im so ready
MUC 48 UWW 20
December 16th, 2007 at 8:08 am
Hey…what happend to the Purpl Raiders?I just can’t beleive they lost. I literaly cried last night after the game.I felt more bad for the seniors than ever especially Garcon because his family was there. Next year is out year….
December 16th, 2007 at 8:08 am
Hey…what happend to the Purpl Raiders?I just can’t beleive they lost. I literaly cried last night after the game.I felt more bad for the seniors than ever especially Garcon because his family was there. Next year is out year….